62 vs. 81

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:59 pm
Which was a better game. Kobe's 81 pts, 6 rbs, 2 assts, or tmac's 62-10-5 game. At first if would seem obvious that it was kobe's, but let's look at it this way:

The case for kobe:
81 is a heck of a lot more than 62. And he did it in less minutes. On a better fg%. No contest.
The case for T-Mac:
Having watched both of those games, I can say with confidence that, while tmac was double-teamed from the get-go, kobe faced surprisingly few double teams for a guy who was shattering records. Kobe was being guarded by "turnstile" rose while T-mac was being doubled by defensive specialist Jared Jeffries and Average defender Michael Butler. Also, T-mac wasn't just looking for his own shot, as referenced by the 5 assists and ten boards. Tmac also played much better defense, keeping jeffries to ten points, whereas a freelancing kobe had 17-6-5 scored on him by jalen rose. Also, Kobe was kept in after the game was out of reach, and got most of his fourth quarter points on free throws, and due to the fact that he took all but three of his team's shots in the fourth quarter.

These games are as close as can be for games that are 19 points apart, and I don't think if you can say one is better than the other. What do you think?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:31 pm
You make a strong case for tmac, Pest
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:12 pm
I agree, you really make it sound appealing... but the results speak for themselves. Kobe Bryant's 81 points are 2nd on the all-time list. Tracy McGrady's performance, while amazing, isn't anywhere close. And, I'm sorry, but I wouldn't refer to Jared Jefferies as a "defensive specialist". :-s Sorry.

Plus, just to throw this out there, everybody's claiming that the new ball is helping to increase scoring. Kobe put up 81 without the added assistance of a ball that's designed to go in the basket.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:15 pm
Unfortunately I haven't seen either game but I have stared downloading Kobe's 81pt game and should have it in three days or so.

You do make a great case for TMac and if that is how it happened, which is believable because Kobe plays for himself only, then TMac's game was better. 81 points is amazing but if TMac had just taken it himself in the 62 point game he might have scored about that as well
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:17 pm
#32 wrote:Plus, just to throw this out there, everybody's claiming that the new ball is helping to increase scoring. Kobe put up 81 without the added assistance of a ball that's designed to go in the basket.




Did tMac? NO, so what is the relevance
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:46 pm
#32 wrote:Plus, just to throw this out there, everybody's claiming that the new ball is helping to increase scoring. Kobe put up 81 without the added assistance of a ball that's designed to go in the basket.

I'll respond to this in detail later but you realize that tmac's game happened several years ago (prior to the handchecking rules and way prior to the new ball)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:36 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Which was a better game. Kobe's 81 pts, 6 rbs, 2 assts, or tmac's 62-10-5 game. At first if would seem obvious that it was kobe's, but let's look at it this way:


Being both of them awesome achievements, and deserving props as some of the best individual performances of all time, I don't think it's even close. T-Mac gets the nod for me.

Kobe was unbelievable in that game... but Toronto didn't play any defense on him. None at all. Meanwhile, Kobe was THE option on the Lakers offense. Every play was for him. He was the first, second, third and fourth option to shoot (logical, being the way Toronto was defending him). It was an incredible game, but extremely conditioned by the way it developed.

T-Mac's game was a lot more balanced and difficult to achieve. That's why he gets the nod from me.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:24 pm
TMC wrote:Kobe was unbelievable in that game... but Toronto didn't play any defense on him. None at all.



Have you downloaded that game already TMC? I have about 10% of it right now and really want to see it
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:07 pm
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:Kobe was unbelievable in that game... but Toronto didn't play any defense on him. None at all.



Have you downloaded that game already TMC? I have about 10% of it right now and really want to see it

when did you start downloading it? it happened quite a long time ago.......Are you at .6 kilobytes per second?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:33 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:Kobe was unbelievable in that game... but Toronto didn't play any defense on him. None at all.



Have you downloaded that game already TMC? I have about 10% of it right now and really want to see it

when did you start downloading it? it happened quite a long time ago.......Are you at .6 kilobytes per second?



I found it on the torrent site me and TMC use and I started downloading it two days ago but I'm also downloading a couple of other games with other NBA teams
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:44 am
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:Kobe was unbelievable in that game... but Toronto didn't play any defense on him. None at all.



Have you downloaded that game already TMC? I have about 10% of it right now and really want to see it


Yeah, I did it the day after the game. I don't watch as much basketball as I used to (other than Warriors games), but a 81 point game doesn't happen often.

I was able to download the full game in 2 hours... but probably there are not as many seeders now than when I did.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:15 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:
TMC wrote:Kobe was unbelievable in that game... but Toronto didn't play any defense on him. None at all.



Have you downloaded that game already TMC? I have about 10% of it right now and really want to see it


Yeah, I did it the day after the game. I don't watch as much basketball as I used to (other than Warriors games), but a 81 point game doesn't happen often.

I was able to download the full game in 2 hours... but probably there are not as many seeders now than when I did.



You must have a real fast connection. I only have 256 ADSL and wil go to 512 in a few months
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:38 am
migya wrote:You must have a real fast connection. I only have 256 ADSL and wil go to 512 in a few months


What I have is not exactly ADSL, but works like a 512... But it's not only that connection. Games download a lot faster the two days right after the game... if not, it takes a bit more.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:17 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:I'll respond to this in detail later but you realize that tmac's game happened several years ago (prior to the handchecking rules and way prior to the new ball)

No, i didn't see the game (which is why I couldn't really comment on their styles of play... I've only seen Kobe's 81).

However, I've pulled up the box scores on boths games, and it still seems to me that Kobe's performance was much better. You can read them yourselves here:

Kobe Bryant's 81-point night
Tracy McGrady's 62-point night


First of all, you claimed that the Lakers "kept Kobe in the game, even when it was clearly out of reach". While that may be true, McGrady still ended up playing 5 more minutes (46) than Bryant (41). So, Bryant (in less playing time) scored more points.

Then, you make mention about Jalen Rose unleashing a massive 17-point game on Kobe Bryant. What you didn't mention was that Kobe held Jalen to 3/11 from the field, while McGrady's opponent (Jefferies) was 5/8. Just throwing that out there.

You also say that, even though Bryant shot a higher percentage than McGrady, Tracy had to opperate within his team's normal playing style... as if the offense wasn't catering to him. That night, McGrady took a total of 37 shots (and 26 attempted free throws, meaning he was hacked TRYING to shoot at least 13 times... or as many as 26, I didn't see how many and-1's he made). Regardless, that totals up to 50 plays ran to McGrady. The next closest guy on the Magic (Juwan Howard) only had 22 plays ran to him (19 shots, 6 free throws). Do you mean to tell me that McGrady had to 'work around' the Orlando offense in order to get his shots? The man had double the attempts of the next closest player!

Tracy also took worse shots than Kobe. He attempted more 3-pointers (14-13), and made less (5, compared to Kobe's 7... putting their percentages at 36%, for McGrady, and 54% for Bryant).

Kobe also connected on a higher percentage of free throws from the line. Even though he shot less, they both had at least 20, so you can't claim Kobe didn't shoot enough free throws to miss a few. Bryant shot 90% from the line (connecting on 18 of 20), while McGrady shot 65% (only hitting 17 of 26). You can't tell me "the Wizards intense defense" was also getting to McGrady at the line. There's no excuse for only heaving up 65% when you're shooting over 25 free throws!

And while you also make mention of Kobe's lesser secondary stats on offense (being outdone by McGrady in rebounds and assists), you fail to point out that Kobe, despite being the main man on offense, outplayed McGrady on the defensive end - never tiring out from the offensive side. Kobe ended the game with 3 steals and 1 block, as opposed to McGrady's 1 steal. Its also worth mentioning that McGrady had two times as many turnovers as Bryant (6-3) in the game.

All in all, Tracy McGrady achieved less points, shooting a worse percentage across the board, throwing away twice as many turnovers, and played WORSE defense than Kobe Bryant... but you believe that he had the better performance purely because he was being guarded by Jared Jeffereis...?

Although I haven't seen McGrady's 62-point showing, I can't admit that Kobe had a worse night. As I said above, the results speak for themselves.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:45 am
#32 wrote:All in all, Tracy McGrady achieved less points, shooting a worse percentage across the board, throwing away twice as many turnovers, and played WORSE defense than Kobe Bryant... but you believe that he had the better performance purely because he was being guarded by Jared Jeffereis...?


McGrady had to work a lot more for his points. Without saying the Wizards had a marvelous defensive game, it wasn't even close between them and the Raps...

Some points you make are undeniable (like the free throws, or McGrady's lack of defense, although it should be noticed that Kobe didn't work much on defense himself), but Bryant had it all almost too easy against a team that at times stopped trying to defend him.

Bryant's numbers are better, but I give more props to McGrady's game.
Last edited by TMC on Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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