Tmac to retire once his 3-year contract expires

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:00 pm
Didn't see this in a article but he said it himself in an interview on TNT. He plans to retire once his contract expires in 3 years because of the injuries that have set back his game. He then plans to spend time with his family and try baseball out. Word is that he's been working out with the Rocket (Roger Clemens). He's currently 27 and will be 30 when his contract is out. Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:44 pm
Absolutely stupid. If McGrady wants to retire because of injuries, than he has all the right to. God knows he has the money, he's made fans (I'm not one of them... but still), and he's left something of a legacy (he's been a B-list star for the past few years).

But baseball? Come on. That's a moronic thing for him to do.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:52 pm
Wow, this is pretty surprising.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:23 pm
Hope he changes his mind! he is one of the best players in the nba and an alltime great talent. It is far too early for him to leave! He should aim for goals like MVP and championships
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:55 pm
Also, this is a big let-down for the organization. How would you like it if J-Rich just decided to retire at the end of his contract.

I don't see how T-Mac's injury problems are that bad. Last season he had a little trouble (50 games played), but the season before that, he was perfectly fine! And he has not needed to miss games this year!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:21 am
John Patrick wrote:I don't see how T-Mac's injury problems are that bad. Last season he had a little trouble (50 games played), but the season before that, he was perfectly fine! And he has not needed to miss games this year!


But he's said that he's not the same player he was, probably due to injuries. He's acknowledged that he's a bit slower and can't do all the things he did 3 or 4 seasons ago... His thoughts about retiring probably come from frustration.

I don't think that will happen. He still has three years in his contract. Unless injuries slow him down even more, I don't think he'll retire without signing another contract.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:01 pm
migya wrote:he is one of the best players in the nba and an alltime great talent... He should aim for goals like MVP and championships

:scratch: You're not serious, are you?

McGrady's flashing dunks have built him an adolescent fanbase, but his inability to win in the playoffs (along with his constant need to hog the ball) make him a B-List star, at best.

Tracy McGrady isn't even in the upper crop of the current NBA superstars... so how could he be considered one of the greatest talents of all-time?

Or have we already had this argument. This all sounds so vaguely familiar...?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:32 pm
He'll enjoy 7-9 more years granted injury of course. Playing off Yao is the key though...
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:32 pm
#32 wrote:
migya wrote:he is one of the best players in the nba and an alltime great talent... He should aim for goals like MVP and championships

:scratch: You're not serious, are you?

McGrady's flashing dunks have built him an adolescent fanbase, but his inability to win in the playoffs (along with his constant need to hog the ball) make him a B-List star, at best.

Tracy McGrady isn't even in the upper crop of the current NBA superstars... so how could he be considered one of the greatest talents of all-time?

Or have we already had this argument. This all sounds so vaguely familiar...?

Tracy Mcgrady's season when he took a YWCA team to 40 wins and a playoff spot was one of the most remarkable single season performances in the history of the game. There was a period of time when he was without a doubt at top-5 player in the league. If you watched the (04 I think?) playoffs series against Dallas, the dude played some of the illest ball I have ever seen. It doesn't show up in his stats, but he was also one of the ten best passers in the league, he just rarely has anybody to pass to. His wizardry in that playoff series was at lebron level. That is better than a B-List star. He actually, if anything, has a tendency to pass to the open man when he'd be better served shooting over the double team because so many of his teammates were utter crap until this year.

How many players could get a squad to the playoffs with these guys as the regulars:
Here are the players who played 50+ games for that team:
Pat Garrity
Darrell Armstrong
Jacques Vaughn
Shawn Kemp after getting fat
Andrew Declerq
Pat Burke
Jeryl Sasser

However this is all a moot point as tracy mcgrady recently said "I'm going to play baseball at the end of my (basketball) career," McGrady said. "I guess (TNT) took that to mean the end of my contract. But who knows what I'm going to do in four years?". However he also said this "I think I'll be done with this game in my early 30's," McGrady said. "I would be a pitcher. I got a knuckleball, slider, changeup, curve and whatever."
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:37 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Tracy Mcgrady's season when he took a YWCA team to 40 wins and a playoff spot was one of the most remarkable single season performances in the history of the game. There was a period of time when he was without a doubt at top-5 player in the league. If you watched the (04 I think?) playoffs series against Dallas, the dude played some of the illest ball I have ever seen. It doesn't show up in his stats, but he was also one of the ten best passers in the league, he just rarely has anybody to pass to. His wizardry in that playoff series was at lebron level. That is better than a B-List star. He actually, if anything, has a tendency to pass to the open man when he'd be better served shooting over the double team because so many of his teammates were utter crap until this year.

How many players could get a squad to the playoffs with these guys as the regulars:
Here are the players who played 50+ games for that team:
Pat Garrity
Darrell Armstrong
Jacques Vaughn
Shawn Kemp after getting fat
Andrew Declerq
Pat Burke
Jeryl Sasser

The 2003 playoffs, actually. And a few players are missing from that list:

Drew Gooden, for one, averaged an amazing 14 PPG and 13 RPG for the Magic during their 7-game series. He also gathered 6 blocks during their playoff run (putting him at just under one swat per game to lead the team). The suprise in him stepping his game up was a huge reason for the Magic' success.

Gordon Giricek, whose now playing great ball for the Utah Jazz, was also on that lineup... and put up a respectable 10 PPG during the series.

Chris Whitney (the 3-point specialist) was a hot gunner for the Magic in the playoffs, with an overall 44% in the playoffs. His outside touch kept the defenders from constantly doubling T-Mac out of the gate.

It's also worth mentioning that Shawn Kemp's fat ass barely averaged 10 minutes a game during that series; he wasn't a factor. The same can be said for Pat Burke and Jeryl Sasser.

Here's the stat that pops out for me: the Orlando Magic, as a team, put up a total of 512 attempted shots in the '03 Playoffs (roughly, 73 a game). Out of the 512 attempts, Tracy McGrady took 165 of them. The next closest person (Gooden) only had 90 (nearly half as many shot attempts).

Am I suppose to believe that the statistics are simply hiding McGrady's playmaking skills... when he clearly took a third of his team's shots? It doesn't look so bad until you also note that McGrady took an attempted 10 shots a night at the free throw stripe, as well!

So McGrady wasn't simply hogging a third of Orlando's shot attempts; that was only counting the times he didn't get fouled on his way to the bucket.

*********************

I simply don't like ballhog players. Kobe Bryant isn't a favorite of mine, Allen Iverson's a black hole, Gilbert Arenas is hated by me, Tracy McGrady is on my sh*t-list, as is Antoine Walker, as is Latrell Sprewell, ect, ect, ect.

Players who average a lot of points mostly due to the fact that they take a lot of shots are overrated, in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:22 pm
#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Tracy Mcgrady's season when he took a YWCA team to 40 wins and a playoff spot was one of the most remarkable single season performances in the history of the game. There was a period of time when he was without a doubt at top-5 player in the league. If you watched the (04 I think?) playoffs series against Dallas, the dude played some of the illest ball I have ever seen. It doesn't show up in his stats, but he was also one of the ten best passers in the league, he just rarely has anybody to pass to. His wizardry in that playoff series was at lebron level. That is better than a B-List star. He actually, if anything, has a tendency to pass to the open man when he'd be better served shooting over the double team because so many of his teammates were utter crap until this year.

How many players could get a squad to the playoffs with these guys as the regulars:
Here are the players who played 50+ games for that team:
Pat Garrity
Darrell Armstrong
Jacques Vaughn
Shawn Kemp after getting fat
Andrew Declerq
Pat Burke
Jeryl Sasser

The 2003 playoffs, actually. And a few players are missing from that list:

Drew Gooden, for one, averaged an amazing 14 PPG and 13 RPG for the Magic during their 7-game series. He also gathered 6 blocks during their playoff run (putting him at just under one swat per game to lead the team). The suprise in him stepping his game up was a huge reason for the Magic' success.

Gordon Giricek, whose now playing great ball for the Utah Jazz, was also on that lineup... and put up a respectable 10 PPG during the series.

Chris Whitney (the 3-point specialist) was a hot gunner for the Magic in the playoffs, with an overall 44% in the playoffs. His outside touch kept the defenders from constantly doubling T-Mac out of the gate.

It's also worth mentioning that Shawn Kemp's fat ass barely averaged 10 minutes a game during that series; he wasn't a factor. The same can be said for Pat Burke and Jeryl Sasser.

Here's the stat that pops out for me: the Orlando Magic, as a team, put up a total of 512 attempted shots in the '03 Playoffs (roughly, 73 a game). Out of the 512 attempts, Tracy McGrady took 165 of them. The next closest person (Gooden) only had 90 (nearly half as many shot attempts).

Am I suppose to believe that the statistics are simply hiding McGrady's playmaking skills... when he clearly took a third of his team's shots? It doesn't look so bad until you also note that McGrady took an attempted 10 shots a night at the free throw stripe, as well!

So McGrady wasn't simply hogging a third of Orlando's shot attempts; that was only counting the times he didn't get fouled on his way to the bucket.

*********************

I simply don't like ballhog players. Kobe Bryant isn't a favorite of mine, Allen Iverson's a black hole, Gilbert Arenas is hated by me, Tracy McGrady is on my sh*t-list, as is Antoine Walker, as is Latrell Sprewell, ect, ect, ect.

Players who average a lot of points mostly due to the fact that they take a lot of shots are overrated, in my opinion.

Well, first of all, I left out nobody. I said "who played more than 50 games". That is a fact. He had zero regular season supporting cast and made it to the playoffs. His only two above average teammates (By your favorite stat, gooden and hill) combined for 48 regular season games. That is an amazing feat in and of itself. But if you wish to bring up the playoffs then so be it.

"Sharpshooter" chris whitney was playing in 15 minutes per game, taking a total of 9 three pointers and making 4 of them, getting an average 22 points in 21 FGAs. Gooden took half as many shots as mcgrady, despite having a 14.5% worse TS%. Should he have really taken more? Darrell Armstrong was the only guy who you could possible make the argument that he should have gotten more shots, shooting the same FG% and 3P% as tmac.

So basically, tmac was as efficient or more efficient than anybody on the team that series despite playing 44 minutes per game, being double teamed against a detroit pistons team that already had three of their big five.

It seems apparent that tmac didn't hurt the team in the slightest.

By the way, I was referencing the '03 regular season, not the playoffs. The playoffs series that I thought he was phenominal in was '05, though now that I look '03 wasn't bad either.......

What playoff series was he expected to win? Against the mavs? As a 40 win team against the pistons? No, he wasn't supposed to take either of those teams to seven games.

bit of trivia - minimum of at least 20 career playoff games, mcgrady currently has the 3rd highest playoff pts/g scoring average, at 29.8 pts/g, just less than jordan and iverson but ahead of luminaries like jerry west, rick barry, elgin baylor, and others...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:30 am
coltraning wrote:By the way, I was referencing the '03 regular season, not the playoffs. The playoffs series that I thought he was phenominal in was '05, though now that I look '03 wasn't bad either.......

What playoff series was he expected to win? Against the mavs? As a 40 win team against the pistons? No, he wasn't supposed to take either of those teams to seven games.


I was about to post that much. He made several trips to the playoffs with AWFUL teams, not even mediocre...

As an example, the 2001 playoffs, which Orlando made with the following roster:

Tracy Mcgrady
Darrell Armstrong
Grant Hill (only played 4 games)
Mike Miller
Pat Garrity
John Amaechi
Bo Outlaw
Dee Brown
Michael Doleac
Monty Williams
Troy Hudson
Andrew Declercq
Don Reid
Cory Alexander
James Robinson
Elliot Perry

Milwaukee won the first round series 3-1. From that team, only Darrell Armstrong and Mike Miller (the ROY from the worst rookie class I can remember) deserve a spot in the NBA. Getting that team to the playoffs was a major accomplishment.

I'm not a big fan of McGrady... but he's a real superstar in my eyes.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:35 pm
coltraning wrote:"Sharpshooter" chris whitney was playing in 15 minutes per game, taking a total of 9 three pointers and making 4 of them

And that's bad??? 4 for 9 is almost 50%! How can you claim that he didn't deserve more shots?

coltraning wrote:It seems apparent that tmac didn't hurt the team in the slightest.

I didn't say he hurt the team; I said I didn't like ballhog players. Name the last time a ballhog won an NBA Championship. Kobe (sans Shaq)? Arenas? Iverson? McGrady?

It's like I've always said; talented ballhogs can only carry their teams so far. They never win the big one. Thats why I'm glad Arenas took off.

coltraning wrote:What playoff series was he expected to win? Against the mavs? As a 40 win team against the pistons? No, he wasn't supposed to take either of those teams to seven games.

He wasn't supposed to win those series. And he didn't. Taking them to 7 games means nothing.

coltraning wrote:bit of trivia - minimum of at least 20 career playoff games, mcgrady currently has the 3rd highest playoff pts/g scoring average, at 29.8 pts/g, just less than jordan and iverson but ahead of luminaries like jerry west, rick barry, elgin baylor, and others...

And how many rings does he have, compared to Jordan, West, Barry, ect?

Hogging the ball to score a lot of points doesn't impress me. Its just my personality, I guess.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:04 pm
32, you said you disliked ballhogs. I can respect that. But I can not agree that T-Mac was never better than a "B-List" star (unless the "A-list" consists of two or three players) and I have never heard of somebody looking down on tmac as much as you do. Really, if you don't like the "ballhogs" and you don't like Nowitsky, and think Yao's talent is wasted (not to mention you calling him a "chinaman", which is questionable judgement), then does the A-List consist of only Shaq, Nash, Lebron and Brand? Because those are really the only superstars that aren't on your **** list.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:55 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:32, you said you disliked ballhogs. I can respect that. But I can not agree that T-Mac was never better than a "B-List" star (unless the "A-list" consists of two or three players) and I have never heard of somebody looking down on tmac as much as you do. Really, if you don't like the "ballhogs" and you don't like Nowitsky, and think Yao's talent is wasted (not to mention you calling him a "chinaman", which is questionable judgement), then does the A-List consist of only Shaq, Nash, Lebron and Brand? Because those are really the only superstars that aren't on your **** list.

My idea of a superstar is very exclusive. It's not as easy to get on as most people's list; as I'm not pacified by some young kid who can dunk the ball.

A true superstar has the following:

1) He makes his team win. Not simply by doing it all; he makes his teammates better as well... and the franchise would be (undoubtably) worse without him. If the guy has a horrible team (like KG or Chris Bosh), that's acceptable... but if you're playing with an all-star (like Iverson and Webber), that's not. This is why the ballhogs don't impress me; because Arenas, Iverson, Marbury, Steve Francis, ect, ect, ect, are all interchangeable. They don't make their teammates better at all. Plus, their teams would be (arguably) better if they traded them (which you can't say about Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, ect).

2) He needs to excell (at a superstar level) in more than simply one aspect of the game. Tracy McGrady is a big-time scorer... but thats it. He's not among the league's best in rebounds or assists... and he's not one of the league's premiere defenders. That's why a guy like Kobe Bryant or LeBron Jame outranks him; because Tracy's only a one-dimensional star.

3) He needs to be able to defend well. If defense is a weakness, the guy isn't an all-around player so he can't be a star. On the flip side, a guy can't be offensively retarded either..

4) He must be fundamentally sound. A guy can have the most incredible hops in the world... but, until they learn how to handle and dish, they're second rate players. On the flip side, a guy also needs to use his gifts. Guys like Larry Bird and Chris Mullin only had to rely on their jumpers because they were among the league's LEAST athletic players.

5) He needs to command a double-team in the clutch. No player can be a true superstar if they can't make it when it counts.

Using this scale, I'd say that my "A-List Stars" include:

Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd
Vince Carter
Chris Bosh
LeBron James
Chauncey Billips
Jermaine O'Neal
Michael Redd
Dwayne Wade
Shaquille O'Neal
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitski
Yao Ming
Pau Gasol
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Kevin Garnett
Andrei Kirilenko
Baron Davis
Elton Brand
Kobe Bryant
Steven Nash
Ron Artest

Noticable guys who miss my A-List are:

Iverson (who hogs the ball)
Ben Wallace (who can't play offense at all)
Rip Hamilton (he's only great at scoring)
Gilbert Arenas (ballhog)
Antawn Jamison (can't carry a team)
Jason Terry (ballhog who can't carry a team)
Tracy McGrady (only great at scoring)
Manu Ginobli (doesn't show up in the regular season)
Carmelo Anthony (only great at scoring)
Zach Randolph (can't defend at all)
Ray Allen (only great at scoring)
Rashard Lewis (only great at scoring)
Jason Richardson (only great at scoring)

Does that clear things up for you, Pest...?

Also, when did I call Yao a "Chinaman"? If I did, it doesn't matter (because thats what he is... you can't get made at me for calling him a Chinaman, thats like migya getting angry if I called him an Australian).
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