Overrated and Underrated NBA Teams

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:31 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Chicago - Big Ben Wallace is not going to make them contenders, He's declining and fast
Detroit - Big ben was the heart and soul of that team, they're not going to be close to what they were before

These two sound odd together. :scratch:

Big Ben was the heart & soul of Detroit; without him they're going to decline a lot... and, yet, when you add him to Chicago, they won't improve a lot? I think Detroit is still dangerous (they lost Ben, but they can now slide Sheed to center and play McDysse at PF... getting into the new small ball fad in the NBA) and Chicago will become a huge threat in the East. Neither team is overrated, really.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Cleveland - Lebron is going to be spectacular, but it might not be enough even in an east that took a huge step back this offseason.

I dunno about that. LeBron made (pretty much) everyone around him better... and they ran into a brick wall (the Pistons) in the 2nd round. I see it like when Michael's Bulls got eliminated by the Pistons & Celtics in the early 90's and late 80's. When LeBron takes over the league (which could very well be this season), the Cav's will be contenders purely because he's on the roster.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Phoenix - They are overrated purely becuase of the fact that people are discounting amare's impending injury.
Houston - Yao and Tmac's injuries aren't ones that just go away

I agree... but there's always an asterisk next to how far these teams go (always citing Amare and TMac's injuries).

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Underrated:
San Antonio - If I were making the odds, I'd say san antonio has the best chance of winning it all next year, even though they're not improving

How do you figure? Duncan's numbers have declined 3 seasons in a row, Ginobli has proved to be horribly overrated, Parker's solid (but he's no franchise)... and the rest of the roster is reaching their expiration date. Finley, Van Exel, and Horry suddenly all look too old to be effective. Plus, they lost Nesterovic! They've only gotten worse this offseason.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Sacto - some people are talking about them not making the playoffs, I think they'll have an outside shot at a top four seed

Not if Artest blows up midway through the season. Musselman had problems with a melo guy like JRich. Imagine how players like Artest (and Bonzi, if he returns) will react to this guy.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Clips - Shaun livingston looks like he's finally becoming a quality player.

The Clippers are underrated... but not because of Shaun Livingston.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Orlando - I think that they'll make the second round next year; darko, dwight, jameer, are all underrated

I agree... but the second round is probably a stretch. I'm betting they'll take it to a 7-game in the first, but lose.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Charlotte - they won't make the playoffs, but I think they could win in the mid thirties with all the talent they've been stockpiling.

Charlotte is a long-term powerhouse. In 5 years, this team could own the East. Okafor, Morrison, May, Felton, Brezec, and Wallace are all young, talented, and have good roles on their team. Imagine if (while Morrison is adjusting to the NBA) Okafor and Knight all get injured next season and enter the NBA lotto again... can you imagine the current Charlotte roster with a Top 8 pick in the '07 Draft?! Sounds scary to me.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:26 pm
#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Chicago - Big Ben Wallace is not going to make them contenders, He's declining and fast
Detroit - Big ben was the heart and soul of that team, they're not going to be close to what they were before

These two sound odd together. :scratch:

Big Ben was the heart & soul of Detroit; without him they're going to decline a lot... and, yet, when you add him to Chicago, they won't improve a lot? I think Detroit is still dangerous (they lost Ben, but they can now slide Sheed to center and play McDysse at PF... getting into the new small ball fad in the NBA) and Chicago will become a huge threat in the East. Neither team is overrated, really.


:mrgreen:
Sure does sound alittle strange.

Bulls should be better but I agree that Rasheed could be Center and McDyess PF and the Pistons should be in top 3 in the East but there is the possibility that they could fall


#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Underrated:
San Antonio - If I were making the odds, I'd say san antonio has the best chance of winning it all next year, even though they're not improving

How do you figure? Duncan's numbers have declined 3 seasons in a row, Ginobli has proved to be horribly overrated, Parker's solid (but he's no franchise)... and the rest of the roster is reaching their expiration date. Finley, Van Exel, and Horry suddenly all look too old to be effective. Plus, they lost Nesterovic! They've only gotten worse this offseason.


Duncan had his worst statistical season last season and the Spurs won the most games in their franchise history!!!! Point = Spurs are very talented and Duncan can afford to do less! Parker is real god, Ginobili only shows hows he really is when he has to and the Spurs have great role players and a great coach. They could be champions again


#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Orlando - I think that they'll make the second round next year; darko, dwight, jameer, are all underrated

I agree... but the second round is probably a stretch. I'm betting they'll take it to a 7-game in the first, but lose.



The Magic have been quite the losing team in recent years and it looks like they need a decent coach to get that team together. They could make the playoffs or they could be one of the four worst in the East
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:06 pm
migya wrote:
#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Underrated:
San Antonio - If I were making the odds, I'd say san antonio has the best chance of winning it all next year, even though they're not improving

How do you figure? Duncan's numbers have declined 3 seasons in a row, Ginobli has proved to be horribly overrated, Parker's solid (but he's no franchise)... and the rest of the roster is reaching their expiration date. Finley, Van Exel, and Horry suddenly all look too old to be effective. Plus, they lost Nesterovic! They've only gotten worse this offseason.


Duncan had his worst statistical season last season and the Spurs won the most games in their franchise history!!!! Point = Spurs are very talented and Duncan can afford to do less! Parker is real god, Ginobili only shows hows he really is when he has to and the Spurs have great role players and a great coach. They could be champions again

Well, you're right... they could. But, right now, I don't think the Spurs could take the Pistons (even without Big Ben) or the Heat... and they'll have their work cut out for them against Phoenix and Dallas next season.

San Antonio has a host of good role players, yes... but one of their biggest pieces (as far as their front court goes), Nesterovic, has skipped town. Robert Horry will turn 37 this year (and his legs will turn 80). Brent Barry is 36... as is Nick Van Exel (and the past 3 seasons, Van Exel's shot well below his usual FG, FT, and 3-point percentages... which, seeing as he's no prolific playmaker, is majorly bad news for the Spurs). And Michael Finley is 34 (clearly on the downslope of his career... and entering his 11th season).

What's more; Ginobli comes through a couple times in the playoffs (ala Derek Fisher or Sam Cassell), but his lackluster regular season averages of 15, 3, and 3 place a huge load on the declining back of Tim Duncan... and Tony Parker. It's also worth noting that Bruce Bowen will turn 36 this year, as well.

The clock is ticking for the Spurs. I'm wondering if they can still be as dominant as before (especially without Nesterovic to compliment Duncan inside - as Tim's never worked in the NBA without a capable 7-footer in the paint with him).

I think Duncan's personal numbers will improve this year... but San Antonio will still miss the NBA Finals.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:41 am
Nesterovic is one of the worst starting centers of the NBA. I can agree with the other analysis (although I think Duncan's averages decreased because the Spurs are trying these last few seasons to spread their offense, not because he's getting older or any other reason), and it's true that Ginobili comes up big in certain games, and doesn't appear half as good in others.

Also, age is becoming a factor (for Bowen, Horry and Finley. Van Exel and Barry don't matter much), but I still think that those players have two decent years left.

Also, San Antonio is a better team than last year. They got Eric Williams and Matt Bonner for Nesterovic (each one of them is better than Nesterovic) and added Elson (who can do what Nesterovic did, just cheaper) and Jackie Butler. They have improved the team... and if you don't believe so, just wait.

Also, if Bonzi Wells ends up signing a one year contract, I'm pretty sure it will be with San Antonio.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:37 am
I'm going with the spurs or Mavs to win it this season. The Spurs always get it done and that will always be the case until Duncan retires
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:14 pm
#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE]
[quote="tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
Charlotte - they won't make the playoffs, but I think they could win in the mid thirties with all the talent they've been stockpiling.

Charlotte is a long-term powerhouse. In 5 years, this team could own the East. Okafor, Morrison, May, Felton, Brezec, and Wallace are all young, talented, and have good roles on their team. Imagine if (while Morrison is adjusting to the NBA) Okafor and Knight all get injured next season and enter the NBA lotto again... can you imagine the current Charlotte roster with a Top 8 pick in the '07 Draft?! Sounds scary to me.



Definitely it would. They're stocking up on so many future allstars. Imagine if they got the first pick and took Greg Oden. This team would own everyone. Geez, they'll be loaded with weapons and guns. And to top that off, they'll have a solid bench.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:09 pm
xBayAreaWarriorx wrote:
#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Charlotte - they won't make the playoffs, but I think they could win in the mid thirties with all the talent they've been stockpiling.

Charlotte is a long-term powerhouse. In 5 years, this team could own the East. Okafor, Morrison, May, Felton, Brezec, and Wallace are all young, talented, and have good roles on their team. Imagine if (while Morrison is adjusting to the NBA) Okafor and Knight all get injured next season and enter the NBA lotto again... can you imagine the current Charlotte roster with a Top 8 pick in the '07 Draft?! Sounds scary to me.



Definitely it would. They're stocking up on so many future allstars. Imagine if they got the first pick and took Greg Oden. This team would own everyone. Geez, they'll be loaded with weapons and guns. And to top that off, they'll have a solid bench.

Yeah... I was thinking about that, too. What if (somehow) they ended up with Oden or OJ Mayo. Suddenly, they become dangerous for the better part of the decade.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:18 pm
Yeah, I'm interested in watching Charlotte this year...

But the Pistons are still in contention for the title in my opinion! They still have one of the best backcourts in the NBA and don't forget they acquired Nazr Mohammed, who last year had about 7 PPG and 5 RPG in only 17.4 MPG. If they play 30 MPG, he'll have about 14 PPG and 9 RPG. And don't forget about Wallace and McDysse.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:09 pm
TMC wrote:Nesterovic is one of the worst starting centers of the NBA.

Yes, but the Spurs also lost Nazr Mohammad (who was a big part of their front court, too). Like it or not, the loss of Mohammad and Nesterovic is a huge blow... as Jackie Butler won't make SA forget about either.

What will likely happen is the Spurs will start Duncan at center and bring in Horry to start at PF. This will increase the likelyhood of an injury to Horry's knees at some time during the season (and will be followed by the Spurs limiting his minutes until the post season, upon his return).

It won't be a big deal during the regular games - the Spurs will still compete for the best record in the West, but (come playoff time) I can see the injury reoccuring in the 3rd (or even as early as the 1st) round, leaving SA with a limited Robery Horry to worth with (and Horry's a big part of their playoff roster). Without Mohammad or Nesto to compliment Duncan inside, the Spurs will rely on talentless Jackie Butler (meaning more double-teams for Duncan... and Duncan is still the heart, soul, and backbone of the Spurs).

I expect a 2nd round (or, possibly, Western Conference Championship) exit for San Antonio.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:55 pm
Agreed.

Who from the West do you think will make it to the Finals?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:41 pm
I think Phoenix has the best chance (Amare or no Amare).

Aside from that, it's really a toss-up on who'd you rather gamble on. Dallas got REAL lucky, edging out a couple teams in the playoffs this year... so they're a difficult team to pick. San Antonio, like I said, is getting really old and lost two of their most important big men. Denver's a possibility if Carmelo keeps up this tear (but it also hinges on Camby's health). The Clippers have an outside chance (can't believe I'm saying that), but not if Sammy starts looking like he did in Minny a couple years back.

In the East, Detroit, Miami, Indiana, Chicago and Cleveland are all in the hunt... but the West looks pretty wide open right now. Any series could really go either way.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:48 am
Yeah, Mohammed is a big loss. But I think they'll play Duncan at PF, with Oberto (who didn't play much last season, but is a pretty good center), Elson and Butler sharing minutes at center. A center by committe approach.

John Patrick wrote:Who from the West do you think will make it to the Finals?


I'm also going with Phoenix, but only if they have a healthy Amare. If not, someone will knock them out in the second round or the west finals.

If not Phoenix, San Antonio would be my pick, with the Clips and Dallas as possible darkhorses.

I don't see Denver there unless they get some outside threat, other than Carmelo. And even then, they would need Camby and K-Mart to stay healthy.

In the east, I'm going with Chicago (a team that will have trouble scoring, but that will be the new Pistons) and Miami (who still has Wade and, if O'Neal is healthy and motivated, will be a contender).

Detroit doesn't have an option as long as Flip is their coach (probably second round exit) and Cleveland is too young. Lebron alone doesn't put them in championship contention.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:37 pm
TMC wrote:I don't see Denver there unless they get some outside threat, other than Carmelo. And even then, they would need Camby and K-Mart to stay healthy.

I wasn't a Melo fan until late last season to the World Championships. He's showing the heart and desire that made him such a force at Syracuse. If Carmelo gets that fire back... well, there was a reason LeBron & Melo were the talk of the draft instead of LeBron and Wade. Carmelo is a huge force in the game of basketball when he's on. And, in a Western Conference that's basically a crap shoot next year, anything can happen. If LeBron could carry the talent-less Cav's into the second round, there's no reason Carmelo (with a healthy Camby, an Andre Miller, Kenyon Martin, and the newfound, off the bench toughness of Ruben Patterson) can't lead a very-talented (yet cursed) Denver roster deep into the playoffs. It's a long shot, but it's still a shot.

TMC wrote:In the east, I'm going with Chicago (a team that will have trouble scoring, but that will be the new Pistons)

:shock: I'm not sure if I can agree with this. Ben Gordon and Kirk Hinrich led this team last year... and there's hardly a defensive bone in either's body. They're excellent offensive players, though. Chicago had a lot of fire power last year. I don't expect that to change simply because of Ben Wallace's aquisition.

TMC wrote:Detroit doesn't have an option as long as Flip is their coach (probably second round exit) and Cleveland is too young. Lebron alone doesn't put them in championship contention.

Flip's got a LOT of good players, though... even HE can't screw that up two years running. And, after last year, I'm never counting out LeBron's team again. Yes, he's young. But he also showed veteran-like playoff composure... and a very hungry drive to win. With all the talent he's got, I refuse to overlook him. He's just too damn good.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:31 pm
TMC wrote:Yeah, Mohammed is a big loss. But I think they'll play Duncan at PF, with Oberto (who didn't play much last season, but is a pretty good center), Elson and Butler sharing minutes at center. A center by committe approach.


Nestrovic and Mohammed were Centr by committee! No difference now with Butler and Elson, only question is can they be as effective. Elson seems more of an outside shooter, finesse player than both Nest and Mohammed are. Elson could be very effective and make the defense of the opposition spreadout alot more, giving Duncan more space to work with.

The Spurs always make it work!

TMC wrote:
John Patrick wrote:Who from the West do you think will make it to the Finals?


I'm also going with Phoenix, but only if they have a healthy Amare. If not, someone will knock them out in the second round or the west finals.


Though the suns are a very good team, there is a real possibility of them not winning much if Amare is again out for nearly the whole season. They run and gun well but if ever the shots start not to fall as often, they are all of a sudden an average team, capable of getting beaten by quite a few teams. If Nash was to get injured, then forget it, the Suns would not get it done at all (unless Marcus Banks, a very good PG, can run the team similar to Nash, Ain't that right TMC :mrgreen: ).



TMC wrote:Detroit doesn't have an option as long as Flip is their coach (probably second round exit) and Cleveland is too young. Lebron alone doesn't put them in championship contention.


The Pistons just came off the best regular season in franchise history! They have a great chance of winning the championship! Mohammed is the type of player that can play the defense and play his role well and should fit in well with the Pistons. I expect McDyess to be used more than he ever has with the Pistons and he might possibly start at either Center or PF this season
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:38 pm
I'm still pulling for the Pistons too! They're defense is still top-notch, even without Wallace! And with Wallace gone, they're offensive hole with him is also gone!
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