But my point is is that if you average 110 and your opponents average 100 (the suns only averaged 108 this year and gave up 102) then you will probably win despite that disadvantage. Has a team averaging a double digit margin of victory ever not won the championship?

tHe_dIsEaSe wrote:But my point is is that if you average 110 and your opponents average 100 (the suns only averaged 108 this year and gave up 102) then you will probably win despite that disadvantage. Has a team averaging a double digit margin of victory ever not won the championship?

But that's not what we were arguing about. You tried to say the Suns play solid defense. That's just plain note true.

tHe_dIsEaSe wrote:I don't subscribe to the old indiana republican hick saying "defense wins championships". I think that whoever has more points at the end of the game will win and if they keep everybody and return amare, they should have more points at the end of about 70 regular season games and 16 playoff ones. Care to explain the reasoning behind defense wins championships?

Well, take a good luck at the nowadays championship teams and you'll see what people are talking about. The Pistons and Spurs (aka, the only two shoe-in's for NBA finals talk year after year) are defensive specialists. Teams like Cleveland, Dallas, and Phoenix are in the hunt... but they haven't won a ring yet. Even the Shaq-and-Kobe Lakers were defensively tough (and need I mention the Jordan-lead Bulls?).

Flashy dunks, highlights, and points will get you to the post season if you have a lot of guns... but defense wins championships. It's been proven. If Phoenix, Dallas, or Cleveland take the title this year, I'll retract this statement. But if Detroit, SA, or Miami (yes, Miami... I think Haslem, Mourning, O'Neal, Wade, and Payton make them a fine defensive team) wins it, than the point will just be that much clearer.

#32 wrote:

tHe_dIsEaSe wrote:But my point is is that if you average 110 and your opponents average 100 (the suns only averaged 108 this year and gave up 102) then you will probably win despite that disadvantage. Has a team averaging a double digit margin of victory ever not won the championship?

But that's not what we were arguing about. You tried to say the Suns play solid defense. That's just plain note true.

tHe_dIsEaSe wrote:I don't subscribe to the old indiana republican hick saying "defense wins championships". I think that whoever has more points at the end of the game will win and if they keep everybody and return amare, they should have more points at the end of about 70 regular season games and 16 playoff ones. Care to explain the reasoning behind defense wins championships?

Well, take a good luck at the nowadays championship teams and you'll see what people are talking about. The Pistons and Spurs (aka, the only two shoe-in's for NBA finals talk year after year) are defensive specialists. Teams like Cleveland, Dallas, and Phoenix are in the hunt... but they haven't won a ring yet. Even the Shaq-and-Kobe Lakers were defensively tough (and need I mention the Jordan-lead Bulls?).

Flashy dunks, highlights, and points will get you to the post season if you have a lot of guns... but defense wins championships. It's been proven. If Phoenix, Dallas, or Cleveland take the title this year, I'll retract this statement. But if Detroit, SA, or Miami (yes, Miami... I think Haslem, Mourning, O'Neal, Wade, and Payton make them a fine defensive team) wins it, than the point will just be that much clearer.

So by your logic no team pre-1989 won a championship...

#32 wrote:Well, take a good luck at the nowadays championship teams and you'll see what people are talking about.

ok

#32 wrote:Flashy dunks, highlights, and points will get you to the post season if you have a lot of guns... but defense wins championships. It's been proven. If Phoenix, Dallas, or Cleveland take the title this year, I'll retract this statement.

Dallas plays pretty good defense this year. It's a balanced team. If they win the title, it will be because these are not Nelson's Mavs.

Avery johnson is a phenomenal coach.

Agreed. Avery is a damn good coach. He might not be as experienced on the bench as Nelly, but he's been there on the court. I think he's the best floor general of all-time... and that makes for a great coach.

It really would be a rewarding thing and a great sign of what a great coach he is if the Mavs won the championship this season. Avery has really made the Mavs are more complete team with the emphasis on defense

Yeah, it would be an enourmous sign of just how well Avery's got that club playing... but something in my gut thinks that Dirk would get the lion's share of praise, followed by a couple annoying interviews with Mark Cuban talking about how Dirk got screwed out of the MVP award.

On the surface, it sounds great for Avery. But I have a feeling it'd probably bennefit Dirk more, which bothers me because I believe Avery Johnson is moreso the reason the Mavericks have done as well as they have this year (instead of Dirk).

You may be right but I do think Dirk has been perhaps better than ever this season and in the playoffs. Avery is the main reason thoguh as it is his style that has made the Mavs more than just a shoving match for real championship contenders

migya wrote:You may be right but I do think Dirk has been perhaps better than ever this season and in the playoffs. Avery is the main reason thoguh as it is his style that has made the Mavs more than just a shoving match for real championship contenders

Agreed. Good post. Both of them have been outstanding. Avery may be the reason this is a better team than Nellye's Mavs, but he wouldn't be COY without Dirk.

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:You may be right but I do think Dirk has been perhaps better than ever this season and in the playoffs. Avery is the main reason thoguh as it is his style that has made the Mavs more than just a shoving match for real championship contenders

Agreed. Good post. Both of them have been outstanding. Avery may be the reason this is a better team than Nellye's Mavs, but he wouldn't be COY without Dirk.

yes indeed. It is abundantly clear that Avery is outcoaching D'antoni. And he got Dirk to buy into being an aggressive PF, instead of the soft jumpshooter he was. If this trend continues, the Suns are going to be scoring in the 60s by the end of the series. God, do they miss Stoudamire

coltraning wrote:

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:You may be right but I do think Dirk has been perhaps better than ever this season and in the playoffs. Avery is the main reason thoguh as it is his style that has made the Mavs more than just a shoving match for real championship contenders

Agreed. Good post. Both of them have been outstanding. Avery may be the reason this is a better team than Nellye's Mavs, but he wouldn't be COY without Dirk.

yes indeed. It is abundantly clear that Avery is outcoaching D'antoni. And he got Dirk to buy into being an aggressive PF, instead of the soft jumpshooter he was. If this trend continues, the Suns are going to be scoring in the 60s by the end of the series. God, do they miss Stoudamire

Yes, I thought it was hillarious that Bill Simmons said the suns have gotten a lot of lucky breaks over the last couple of years. Howabout losing a 20 ppg scorer last year in the conference finals. Howabout having a lousy jump ball call that puts your team down three games to one? Howabout losing your three best defenders healthy in the conference finals series? Howabout not having your best shooter in the playoffs healthy? Howabout losing a top 5 player in the league for the entire season? Who have the suns had more lucky breaks than in the playoffs this year?

tHe_dIsEaSe wrote:Yes, I thought it was hillarious that Bill Simmons said the suns have gotten a lot of lucky breaks over the last couple of years. Howabout losing a 20 ppg scorer last year in the conference finals. Howabout having a lousy jump ball call that puts your team down three games to one? Howabout losing your three best defenders healthy in the conference finals series? Howabout not having your best shooter in the playoffs healthy? Howabout losing a top 5 player in the league for the entire season? Who have the suns had more lucky breaks than in the playoffs this year?

I never thought it would come a day in which I would agree with you about the Suns... but it happened.