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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:25 pm
by drfrank
hahha you're a little bitch getting owned like that.

hahahah, way to play smart when you edit your typos but when it comes to a battle of wits, you just dont cut it. enjoy your ride on the short yellow bus.

dont respond, i dont give a fuuuuuuuuuck.

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:46 pm
by migya
#32 wrote:I wont continue to respond to your comments here, migya. It's turned into one of your pissing matches where you latch onto the same points and wont logically defend yourself. It's turning into a waste of time. Around other places in the forum, we're cool. But this topic just isn't going anywhere. I've said my piece with plenty of proof, logic, statistics, and personal opinion. Your points only seem to emphasize opinion. I wont continue this cyberspace slapfight over something that can't be won.

#32 - I've just finished using REAL FACTS AND STATS in my most recent post responding to you.
Look at the facts regarding Shaquille O'neal in the 3 Lakers championship seasons - You claimed earlier that he played half a season and he played close to 3 FULL seasons!

You are someone that I like talking to on here but the truth is that you take things too far sometimes - You think that you and only you know and you can be quite rude in knocking someone's statements, even when they are true as in this case.
This shows that you still have some maturing to do, at least when it comes to conversation or small arguments. I was never trying to be disrespectful but I definately have my opinion, as do we all, but I did state facts and you still rejected. Take it easy and just try to do the research so our conversations don't get somewhat heated or uncomfortable.

#32 wrote:The List of 10 Players that I posted will help their teams win the most. Iverson will only take the Sixers as far as his scoring will carry them, which isn't good for the franchise as a whole or his talented teammates that are decaying around him. He's at my 11 spot, but anything higher would be criminal.

Well again we all have our opinions and this particular topic on Iverson and Bryant and who is better is very difficult to substantiate so we will leave it at just our opinions

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:47 am
by 32
migya, if you recall, I'm not the one who began this slap fight by knocking the other person's statements (as I recall, you dismissed my opinions as "attempts at making you laugh"). I tried being content with simply dropping this, but don't make bold statements about who needs more maturity when you were clearly the one who threw the first punch. The only reason I'm being the bigger man and stepping away is because I'm tired of taking part in the immaturity that this post has developed (I wont point fingers, but I'll tell you this much: I didn't start it). I respected your opinion about Allen Iverson (I even submitted that he barely missed my cut), but when I tried explaining my side of the equation to you, it didn't seem like you listened once. One of us definately has some growing up to do in regards to responding towards the opinions of others... but I'm not so sure it's me.

Regardless, this is just beating a dead horse. I know you want the last word, so take it, I guess. I said I was done with this and I am.

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:11 am
by migya
#32, look mate, there is no reason for us getting stupid. Yes, I said that some of your statements were a laugh but that was only because they were so far out in their credibility - Things like Kobe Bryant in place of Allen Iverson on the 76ers would make them instant championship contenders. I just found it hard to believe that you would actually believe that to be true and think that that was just you trying to support your view point that Kobe is better than AI.

This has gone long enough as a push and shove fest that is just a waste of time and we should really get back to proper, civilised conversation about basketball.

No offense intended in anything

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:37 am
by lobsterman is billups overrated? plays lockdown d every night, can run the offense and use his strength to create his own shot, shoots 90 something from the line and takes the big free throws for the best team in the league. as far as im concerned he is by far and away the best defensive pg in the league and thats gotta count for something.

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:43 am
by migya
Right now Billups is the best PG in the nba!

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:16 am
by 32

Don't go too far there, migya. Billips has been playing well lately (perhaps the best defensive point guard, like lobsterman said), but definately not the best PG in the NBA. His across the board Fantasy Basketball stats are great for me in League #2, but in real life, he's outdone by Steve Nash and Baron Davis. I wouldn't put him in the Top 10. Top 15 at the moment, sure, but not any higher. Besides, this has been a career season for him. Odds are, he wont play this highly for more than one season. Great player, I agree. But don't get it twisted and call him the best there is right now.

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:41 am
by Quazza
u wouldnt have Billups in the top 10 of point guards?Ummm did i read that right?

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:16 am
by TMC
Guess he means in a top 10 overall, not only PGs...

But I don't agree. Baron ain't playing better than Billups. Nash may be playing better, but only on one side of the court.

So Billups is the best pg, right now, of the NBA. Really great, and severely underrated, player.

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:12 pm
by lobsterman
right now i saw nash is best point guard in the league followed by billups at #2. i love diddy, but he takes too many bad shots, shoots 66 or something from the line, and his fg% hasnt even cracked 40% yet. when david is playing well (laker game, sonic game) he is probaly the #2 pg in the league. but give me consistant performance from chauncy and ill take him over davis.

heres how i rank the nba point guards as of RIGHT NOW (im not gonna count iverson or arenes, only true points)

1. nash- simply amazing and fun to watch,
2. billups- great d, great leader, captain of the pistons ship
3. kidd- go bears, he's still got it
4. tony parker- his shot keeps getting better and hes one of the hardest guys in the league to guard. having a great year.
5. baron- if he played more consistant, hed be up there at 2 or 3.

it kills me to put tony parker ahead of baron, and hopefulyl baron can move up the list with a solid 2nd half.

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:39 pm
by migya
Truth is that no PG has played as well as billups is this season for quite some time. Billups is the engine that makes the Pistons click and without him they would be nowhere near as good as they are. He can score much more if he wanted to but defers to his teammates alot because he knows they can get it done as well. He will only get better from here or stay at this level on the Pistons, they are on the verge of being a dynasty if they keep doing this right and keeping the players together.

As far as fantasy goes - Billups' numbers don't do him enough justice. ie. They're not that high compared to his real value.
He scores and gets the assists but he doesn't do much else all that great, such as steals but his percentages are very good.

Chauncy Billups is the best PG in the nba at the moment.

1. Billups
2. Nash
3. Parker
4. Kidd
5. Baron

Parker is using his skills to great effectiveness - Speed and hustle.
Kidd is the engine of the nets and they are doing quite well - He gives you all categories.
Baron just isn't playing as well as he could be, both offensively and defensively.

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:05 pm
by Thunder
Officially both Iverson and Arenas are PGs. I would say that Billups is a top 5 PG at the moment but he is certainly not a top 10 player in the league. I don't think that Kidd or Parker are top 5 in the league, even though Parker ate us alive and Kidd reps Oakland. Parker is having a great year but not good enough to warrant a top 5 slot. Kidd on the other hand is normally a top 5er but his numbers simply aren't there this year.

The top five PG, in no particular order, are Nash, Baron, Iverson, Arenas, and Billups. Iverson and Arenas are 2 and 4 respectively in scoring . . . from the point guard spot that is a feat.

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:12 pm
by drfrank
to be a point guard, you need to make other's around you better.

arenas and iverson are scorers which decreases their PG status. they're great players, but there are better point guards like nash/parker/billups. it helps that those 3 guys play for awesome teams. arenas and iverson on the other hand are scorers (two-guards) in point guard bodies.

basically what i'm trying to say is that its NOT any special feat. all you gotta do is chuck up shots. that goes against what a point guard is supposed to be doing.

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:51 pm
by Thunder
I agree that a lot of scoring is just having the onions to chuck one up every other trip down the floor. However, the point of any player on the floor is to make the team better. Arenas is responsible for about 28% of the Wizards scoring and launches about 25% of their shots. A +3% margin is not that bad for a player that leads the team in shooting. Iverson's numbers are 33% and 31%. A +2% margin, also respectable. Both of these players are making their teams better. They do it in a different way than Nash, Parker and, Billups. Besides that, Arenas and Iverson both average more assists than Parker, and we can both agree that they are passing to lessar talent to do so.

It is true that I don't consider them true PGs, it is hard to with the amount of shots they put up, but that is still their position and their production and team contributions are top quality. PGs are supposed to help their teams win the best way they can, and those two do it better than 25 others in the league.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:22 am
by TMC
drfrank wrote:to be a point guard, you need to make other's around you better.

That's true, but at the same time is overrated. There very few examples of that kind of PGs. A good system can mask the defects of more "selfish" PGs.

I'd take a player that can take over a game from any spot (ala Iverson or Arenas) against someone who makes his teammates better but ain't so clutch (Kidd).

btw, my top 5 of PGs, in no specific order:

Arenas, Iverson, Nash, Billups, and ..., Chris Paul (yeah, even above Baron)