bigstrads wrote:Get in!!!..............he said Nate "The Great" was his toughest matchup!

Sorry, little off topic................yeah, f*ck kids (not literally) and MAKE them go to school and learn how to be adults, rather than thinking they are because of their wallets, cars and pregnant sluts.

Kids get everything too easy and too quick these days.............most music and marketing is directed at them, f*cking cell phones at 10, chugging c*ck at 12..............the list is endless of things they get and do too soon for their tiny little, un-developed emotionally, minds to handle the responsibility and consequences of.

Awesome post bigs!!!

One of the problems with kids these days is that they've seen Law & Order enough to know that adults can't kick their asses without going to jail.

There used to be a farm in my hometown that had all sorts of "Keep Out" "Private Property: Trespassers Will Be Shot" signs around the border. Well, we stupid kids would hop the fence and run across the property on a dare. My buddy ended up getting shot in the thigh via a .410 loaded with rock salt. There were no charges pressed against the farmer. In fact my buddies parents were pissed at their son for doing something so stupid. He had his bike taken away for a month as punishment. He also had to apologize to the farmer... over the phone He told me the rock salt was the most painful thing ever, and I believed him. Needless to say none of us hopped that fence after that incident. Can you imagine the hell that farmer would go through these days for doing something like that?

Beast I used to think like you do. Old enough to go to war yadda yadda. Kids used to have to grow up much much faster than they do now. The whole summers off of school thing was so kids could help out on the farms. Now kids just hang out in malls and act like jerks for the summer. The public schools are garbage now, basically just daycare for parents who "have" to have two incomes, you know because they "need" a new SUV/IPad/3-DTV etc. etc.

OK, I'm ranting, but the whole college basketball to NBA thing does seem to mirror american youth in general. They feel like they are owed something and they feel like they can do/say anything they want without repercussions <--- generalization I know. The NBA doesn't owe anyone anything until they are part of the NBA and they can set the age requirement to whatever they want. I think they should set it higher.

Anyway, make the kids stay in school or make them go to the D-League until they are 21.

Beast Mode wrote:I think at 18 if you can go to war, you can choose what the hell career you want to pursue in life. Whether or not a kid would benefit from more years in College is irrelevant. There should be no restrictions on entering the NBA Draft after high school. You don't know the kids situation. It's up to them to decide whether they want to fail/succeed.

I completely agree with you on this point Beast. I think if a player wants to jump directly from HS, that shuld be his option....but if he commits to going to college, he should be locked in for 2 or 3 years.

"Always" Next wrote:

Beast Mode wrote:I think at 18 if you can go to war, you can choose what the hell career you want to pursue in life. Whether or not a kid would benefit from more years in College is irrelevant. There should be no restrictions on entering the NBA Draft after high school. You don't know the kids situation. It's up to them to decide whether they want to fail/succeed.

I completely agree with you on this point Beast. I think if a player wants to jump directly from HS, that shuld be his option....but if he commits to going to college, he should be locked in for 2 or 3 years.

I believe the league has every right to enforce an age limit. Nobody is preventing them from "working". As a privately owned entity, the NBA is free to create rules that they think benefits to the league.

There are plenty of option for these kids that have no desire to go to school. But to imply that they have the RIGHT to jump right into a league that is the best in the world does not make sense if the NBA deems they want people 20+ of age. There are many leagues around the world that would be happy to have them.

Any rule the NBA wishes to impose, does not impose on the rights of any of these kids. Nobody is stopping them from earning a living.

"Always" Next wrote:

Beast Mode wrote:I think at 18 if you can go to war, you can choose what the hell career you want to pursue in life. Whether or not a kid would benefit from more years in College is irrelevant. There should be no restrictions on entering the NBA Draft after high school. You don't know the kids situation. It's up to them to decide whether they want to fail/succeed.

I completely agree with you on this point Beast. I think if a player wants to jump directly from HS, that shuld be his option....but if he commits to going to college, he should be locked in for 2 or 3 years.

But why? I left college after my first semester...I hated it. I worked for a year, thought about what I wanted to do, then went back to school and majored in something I liked, and I did well because it was what I wanted to do. Too many kids go to college when they really don't want to be there.....because they don't know what else to do. Why make people do something they don't want to do in the first place? School isn't prison...if you think you have better options somewhere else, and people are willing to pay you ridiculous sums of money to do something you love, who is ANYONE to tell you that you can't leave?!

I hate the one and done rule, but the one positive is that there has been more talent in the college game since its inception...whereas before anyone with a modicum of talent went straight into the draft. Ok, that is a selfish benefit....But philosophically, I think it's truly a dispicable system that really is only concerned with the pocketbooks of the university and its supporters, NOT the welfare of the students. NO ONE should not be able to dictate to adults what they are allowed to do with their lives. if you can go to work at 18 scrubbing toilets, you should be able to go to work dunking basketballs, especially if people are more than happy to pay you millions to do it.

on another note, this also highlights to me a really big problem with the US and the college system. people feel forced to go to college when they graduate high school....they feel there are no other options. schools are glutted with people who have no idea what the f*ck they are doing there, what they want to do with their lives, or what they want to get out of the experience. many aren't even ready to be there in the first place...and would do better in a trade school or some kind of career apprenticeship program where they can gain useful experience and skills instead of becoming "communications" majors. but the college system is a huge cash-making machine, and our government loves those---so they do nothing to provide options for young people.

i can guarantee if you were 18, came from a family below the poverty level, and you had the opportunity to make gazillions of dollars playing a game you love to play, you would detest anyone who told you you didn't have the right to do it. if you truly value education, you will have all the time in the world after your career is over to get your degree. and it will probably have much more meaning to you later in life.

Maybe Vegi wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:

Beast Mode wrote:I think at 18 if you can go to war, you can choose what the hell career you want to pursue in life. Whether or not a kid would benefit from more years in College is irrelevant. There should be no restrictions on entering the NBA Draft after high school. You don't know the kids situation. It's up to them to decide whether they want to fail/succeed.

I completely agree with you on this point Beast. I think if a player wants to jump directly from HS, that shuld be his option....but if he commits to going to college, he should be locked in for 2 or 3 years.

But why? I left college after my first semester...I hated it. I worked for a year, thought about what I wanted to do, then went back to school and majored in something I liked, and I did well because it was what I wanted to do. Too many kids go to college when they really don't want to be there.....because they don't know what else to do. Why make people do something they don't want to do in the first place? School isn't prison...if you think you have better options somewhere else, and people are willing to pay you ridiculous sums of money to do something you love, who is ANYONE to tell you that you can't leave?!

I hate the one and done rule, but the one positive is that there has been more talent in the college game since its inception...whereas before anyone with a modicum of talent went straight into the draft. Ok, that is a selfish benefit....But philosophically, I think it's truly a dispicable system that really is only concerned with the pocketbooks of the university and its supporters, NOT the welfare of the students. NO ONE should not be able to dictate to adults what they are allowed to do with their lives. if you can go to work at 18 scrubbing toilets, you should be able to go to work dunking basketballs, especially if people are more than happy to pay you millions to do it.

on another note, this also highlights to me a really big problem with the US and the college system. people feel forced to go to college when they graduate high school....they feel there are no other options. schools are glutted with people who have no idea what the f*ck they are doing there, what they want to do with their lives, or what they want to get out of the experience. many aren't even ready to be there in the first place...and would do better in a trade school or some kind of career apprenticeship program where they can gain useful experience and skills instead of becoming "communications" majors. but the college system is a huge cash-making machine, and our government loves those---so they do nothing to provide options for young people.

i can guarantee if you were 18, came from a family below the poverty level, and you had the opportunity to make gazillions of dollars playing a game you love to play, you would detest anyone who told you you didn't have the right to do it. if you truly value education, you will have all the time in the world after your career is over to get your degree. and it will probably have much more meaning to you later in life.

Vegi, its completely different. Im sure you were not recruited to go to whatever school you went to. Im sure you were not given a full ride athletic scholarship. I relize these kids coming into college are giving lots to the schools by simply being there, but if they are not at a level where they can make it in the NBA right away, they should have to make a commitment to college. NCAA coaches should not have to recruit an entire team every year because all of their players go 1 and done. I just dont think its good for the game or the sport.

FORCING people to either go to college or stay in college is a rediculous notion.

If you dont want to go to school and you want to go earn a living, then go do that. Nobody, including the NBA is stopping you to do that. Play overseas like Jennings did, play in the NBDL, or whatever.

bada wrote:FORCING people to either go to college or stay in college is a rediculous notion.

If you dont want to go to school and you want to go earn a living, then go do that. Nobody, including the NBA is stopping you to do that. Play overseas like Jennings did, play in the NBDL, or whatever.

I agree that you should not have to GO to college, but when you sign with a college, it should be a binding contract. This is why I really like the MLB rule. If you are good enough to get drafted right out of HS and that works for you, fine....but if not, go to college or do whatever you want for 2 years then come back through the draft.

"Always" Next wrote:

Maybe Vegi wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:

Beast Mode wrote:I think at 18 if you can go to war, you can choose what the hell career you want to pursue in life. Whether or not a kid would benefit from more years in College is irrelevant. There should be no restrictions on entering the NBA Draft after high school. You don't know the kids situation. It's up to them to decide whether they want to fail/succeed.

I completely agree with you on this point Beast. I think if a player wants to jump directly from HS, that shuld be his option....but if he commits to going to college, he should be locked in for 2 or 3 years.

But why? I left college after my first semester...I hated it. I worked for a year, thought about what I wanted to do, then went back to school and majored in something I liked, and I did well because it was what I wanted to do. Too many kids go to college when they really don't want to be there.....because they don't know what else to do. Why make people do something they don't want to do in the first place? School isn't prison...if you think you have better options somewhere else, and people are willing to pay you ridiculous sums of money to do something you love, who is ANYONE to tell you that you can't leave?!

I hate the one and done rule, but the one positive is that there has been more talent in the college game since its inception...whereas before anyone with a modicum of talent went straight into the draft. Ok, that is a selfish benefit....But philosophically, I think it's truly a dispicable system that really is only concerned with the pocketbooks of the university and its supporters, NOT the welfare of the students. NO ONE should not be able to dictate to adults what they are allowed to do with their lives. if you can go to work at 18 scrubbing toilets, you should be able to go to work dunking basketballs, especially if people are more than happy to pay you millions to do it.

on another note, this also highlights to me a really big problem with the US and the college system. people feel forced to go to college when they graduate high school....they feel there are no other options. schools are glutted with people who have no idea what the f*ck they are doing there, what they want to do with their lives, or what they want to get out of the experience. many aren't even ready to be there in the first place...and would do better in a trade school or some kind of career apprenticeship program where they can gain useful experience and skills instead of becoming "communications" majors. but the college system is a huge cash-making machine, and our government loves those---so they do nothing to provide options for young people.

i can guarantee if you were 18, came from a family below the poverty level, and you had the opportunity to make gazillions of dollars playing a game you love to play, you would detest anyone who told you you didn't have the right to do it. if you truly value education, you will have all the time in the world after your career is over to get your degree. and it will probably have much more meaning to you later in life.

Vegi, its completely different. Im sure you were not recruited to go to whatever school you went to. Im sure you were not given a full ride athletic scholarship. I relize these kids coming into college are giving lots to the schools by simply being there, but if they are not at a level where they can make it in the NBA right away, they should have to make a commitment to college. NCAA coaches should not have to recruit an entire team every year because all of their players go 1 and done. I just dont think its good for the game or the sport.

yeah, I completely agree! it's terrible for the college game. but i don't get how you can't see that forcing someone to stay in school if they don't want to is wrong. it's illegal! even if you make a committment to the military, you can leave. sure, you will probably get a dishonorable discharge, but you CAN leave if you really don't like it. you can't be held prisoner in the event you change your mind.

it's not like the NCAA didn't know this would happen when it instituted this policy. i'm sure it knew (as did every coach) that the best talent would leave immediately after the first season...but having them only for one, was better and much more lucrative than not having them at all.

and whose right is it to determine if you can play in the NBA or not anyway? it's time to stop looking at these "kids" as victims. they are making a choice, same as anyone else, to enter a career. and if they aren't prepared for it, or they don't succeed, how they deal with it is largely on them and/or their parents. it's not the NBA or NCAA's responsibilty to raise them to be mature enough to deal with life's pitfalls.

this is a problem that requires proactive work on the part of the NBA and the NCAA to find a better solution, but they will fail if their primary conern is to make as much money as possible. this is why i have no problems with college atheletes getting cash and other under-the-table benefits under the current system...they are making these institutions richer, and that's all they seem to care about. how else can you explain these coaches that continuously violate rules yet still remain employed?

Its simple the kids that have the talent to jump from high-school to the pros let them, its a talent and a gift they have so they should be able to use to benefit them.

Majority of the kids coming out of High-School wanting to make the jump are young African-American males trying to support families, so let them make that choice.

These kids are marketed as cash cows by colleges, the amount of money they bring into the colleges are ridiculous and they benefit by wasting there time and proving they should be in the NBA.

One and dones don't care about education, read some-where basketball the overall team GPA of Kentucky's basketball team was the worst among the nine SEC schools at 2.025 GPA. So the question arises what is the point of forcing these kids to go to school when their main focus is basketball and not education. Trying to all of a sudden educate kids when they reach college stage is a bit late.

Let these young kids use their talents and benefit from it, get that money is that not the reason we all work in this country.

Interesting dicussion, especially liked Chums farmer story, lol

I don't particularly like the idea of people being banned and denied an opportunity based on their age... just because some people are self-entitled, dosn't mean every one is.

At 18 your legally considered an adult in America.

I think at that stage, if your good enough, your old enough.

Chum wrote:

bigstrads wrote:Get in!!!..............he said Nate "The Great" was his toughest matchup!

Sorry, little off topic................yeah, f*ck kids (not literally) and MAKE them go to school and learn how to be adults, rather than thinking they are because of their wallets, cars and pregnant sluts.

Kids get everything too easy and too quick these days.............most music and marketing is directed at them, f*cking cell phones at 10, chugging c*ck at 12..............the list is endless of things they get and do too soon for their tiny little, un-developed emotionally, minds to handle the responsibility and consequences of.

Awesome post bigs!!!

One of the problems with kids these days is that they've seen Law & Order enough to know that adults can't kick their asses without going to jail.

There used to be a farm in my hometown that had all sorts of "Keep Out" "Private Property: Trespassers Will Be Shot" signs around the border. Well, we stupid kids would hop the fence and run across the property on a dare. My buddy ended up getting shot in the thigh via a .410 loaded with rock salt. There were no charges pressed against the farmer. In fact my buddies parents were pissed at their son for doing something so stupid. He had his bike taken away for a month as punishment. He also had to apologize to the farmer... over the phone He told me the rock salt was the most painful thing ever, and I believed him. Needless to say none of us hopped that fence after that incident. Can you imagine the hell that farmer would go through these days for doing something like that?

Great post Chum and you really have coveyed it well.

Today, things are so wrong, the way of being so perverted, the system so injust, that people have been so duped and conditioned they don't even see it.

They "old way" of respect for those older and right to defend yourself, were practical and no nonsense. Today, this you can't hit your kids is pathetic. Everything has it's boundaries and I'm not an advocate of extremeties, though I am not perfect myself, but certain aspects have gone to far, way too far. Using the example of hitting your children, being a father, creating my daughter with my wife, providing for her and loving her, I really don't accept someone else telling me what I can and can't do. Laws such as Forbidding incest, I totally agree with, that is a clear and acceptable, righteous law, but anything "grey area", is personal and not for someone else to dictate to.

Things will only get worse, more extreme and violating I believe

If I have to get a college degree to make $15 an hour, then they should most definitely have to get a degree to make millions.

I think degrees like business, sports management, accounting, political science, math, medicine/biology, chemistry, could all be applied to sports and be completely relevant. I don't think requiring athletes to have completed at least some higher education is unreasonable.

And why the hell should they get compensated? What ever happened to working and sacrificing to get something you want.

I definitely didn't read any of the other posts...I'm guessing someone already said this stuff.

Captain_Jack wrote:If I have to get a college degree to make $15 an hour, then they should most definitely have to get a degree to make millions.

I think degrees like business, sports management, accounting, political science, math, medicine/biology, chemistry, could all be applied to sports and be completely relevant. I don't think requiring athletes to have completed at least some higher education is unreasonable.

And why the hell should they get compensated? What ever happened to working and sacrificing to get something you want.

I definitely didn't read any of the other posts...I'm guessing someone already said this stuff.

I always felt there was a reason to why they called an athlete a STUDENT-ATHLETE. STUDENT coming first, ATHLETE second. I always agreed with that theory. I understand that if you're going to be offered millions of dollars to dribble a basketball... why say no to that? But I always felt that if you had talent to make it to the NBA, I'd use that talent to get me a full scholarship to pay for my college expenses and nurture my mind. You got guys making money, spending it unwisely, and going bankrupt/getting in trouble with the IRS later on. Don't use overseas as a scapegoat to get into the NBA. Don't use the NBADL a way to get in. Don't go to college for one year and leave right away. If you're going to college... stay there for at least 3-years.

Sure, you have exceptions to the rule... but look at others. Look at Kwame Brown, Sebastian Telfair, Martell Webster, Gerald Green. Where are they? Brown's not in the NBA, Telfair was hyped up to be something big and chose to pass on a scholarship to Louisville and now is a journeyman, Webster is an inconsistent bench scorer, Green is doing dunk contests against James White overseas.

There are so many people out there that would KILL to be in those guys' positions.

But that's just me.