fastbreak wrote:e man I am sad to read your comments that coaches actually are so selfish they cant let the masses enjoy the game. This is entertainment you know that right? Not your personal little chess game. Thats why magic and bird and proved todays overphysical dirty hackfests are truly garbage to watch. That comment about 2-2 score makes me sad.

so kurt rambis and kevin mchale werent players that were frequently involved in hackfests? two key teammates of magic and bird respectively...old detroit pistons bad boy games werent entertaining? you dont have to agree with my opinion, that's totally up to you (and the reason it's MY opinion). i happen to find defense entertaining, because being a player, a coach, and an overall student of the game i happen to know that defense is essential to winning. i know how much of a challenge it is to play defense so i admire those who play it well (most of my favorite players are/have been defensive oriented players: ron artest, dennis rodman, gerald wallace, scottie pippen). offense is a lot easier to play, which is why more people like to play offense...shooting the ball and being able to put it in the basket is a lot easier than preventing someone from doing it, especially since on offense luck can help you out anytime (which isnt so much the case on defense).

question for you (purely out of curiosity), would you rather watch a game with a final score of 140-130 where your team lost, or a game that ended 90-80 where your team won?

why are you bringing up mchale and rambis? Is it because you watch that highlight where rambis clotheslines mchale? You just dont get it do you? High scoring games are not just finesse. There are physical high scoring games. The pistons had exciting offensive teams from 86-87 to 89-90. They avg 111 in 87, 109 in 88, 106 in 89 and 104 in 90. At the same they were a dirty bunch of cheaters and NOT good for the game, The players from the pistons tried to hurt you and thats not part of the game.

There are not that many games 140-130 even in the 80's and 90's. There are too many games 83-80 but there should be low scoring games at times when teams are cold not 95 perecent of the time. There should also be games 105-103 and 115-110, 120-118 on a regular basis. There is no reason for thugball overphysical garbage every night for every game. Like I said you coaches think the game is your personal little chess match and you own it. You dont own and the game and its not yours. The game is for the fans first not for corporate owners.

Since I am a fan of the nba in general I want to see the league like it was in the 80's where the avg team scored 110 points a game and the lowest team was 103 not 90 and the highest scoring team was 120 not 108. Shootouts are fun an exciting for the fans and the fans are more important than the coaches ego's.

I dont like defensive coaches and they should all be wrapped up in a carpet and throw in the garbage. Bottom line the nba was a great league until thug ball replaced that. Dirty cheaters with no talent replaced that. Basicly thugs with no talent just there to start trouble and ruff you up. A foul is a foul and I dont care how much the nba caters to these boring hackfests.

fastbreak wrote:why are you bringing up mchale and rambis? Is it because you watch that highlight where rambis clotheslines mchale? You just dont get it do you? High scoring games are not just finesse. There are physical high scoring games. The pistons had exciting offensive teams from 86-87 to 89-90. They avg 111 in 87, 109 in 88, 106 in 89 and 104 in 90. At the same they were a dirty bunch of cheaters and NOT good for the game, The players from the pistons tried to hurt you and thats not part of the game.

There are not that many games 140-130 even in the 80's and 90's. There are too many games 83-80 but there should be low scoring games at times when teams are cold not 95 perecent of the time. There should also be games 105-103 and 115-110, 120-118 on a regular basis. There is no reason for thugball overphysical garbage every night for every game. Like I said you coaches think the game is your personal little chess match and you own it. You dont own and the game and its not yours. The game is for the fans first not for corporate owners.

Since I am a fan of the nba in general I want to see the league like it was in the 80's where the avg team scored 110 points a game and the lowest team was 103 not 90 and the highest scoring team was 120 not 108. Shootouts are fun an exciting for the fans and the fans are more important than the coaches ego's.

I dont like defensive coaches and they should all be wrapped up in a carpet and throw in the garbage. Bottom line the nba was a great league until thug ball replaced that. Dirty cheaters with no talent replaced that. Basicly thugs with no talent just there to start trouble and ruff you up. A foul is a foul and I dont care how much the nba caters to these boring hackfests.

i bring up kurt rambis and kevin mchale because they were two of the roughest players in the league at the time and also happened to be on the teams that you had mentioned earlier (not just cuz of the clothesline). they were also good defensive players. and yes those teams of the mid 80's to early 90's did average over 100 ppg. but that was what i like to call the defense scoring for you. a good amount of their points were fast break buckets off of steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds...essentially playing good defense that led to the easy bucket.

my own little chess match? really? first of all, i coach 2nd, 4th, and 5th graders. im teaching how to play the game (both offense and defense), and teaching them about sportsmanship, leadership, and the right way to win and lose. this is a volunteer thing that i dont get paid for. 2nd of all, you technically contradict yourself by saying that the games is for the fans and not corporate owners in that corporate owners are about money, and who brings in the money?...fans. so corporate owners will do whatever is in the best interest of bringing more fans in. our warriors are a good example of that in that at the beginning of the season it was clear that entertaining basketball is more imortant than winning basketball. by taking over the front office they took mullin out of the equation (while he was assembling an entertaining AND winning organization). then rowell comes in on bahalf of cohan and they decide theyre gonna get smaller to speed up the game and increase the offense by sacrificing defense and games. it doesnt matter to cohan or rowell whether the warriors win or lose, all they care about is the money the fans bring in.

i do get what you are saying and really it's just a matter of a difference in opinion. i really dont understand why you are making the assumption that i dont get it simply because my opinion is different from yours. you backing up your opinion is fine..all in good debate and conversation, but i never attacked your opinion like you are doing with mine. i simply stated what i believe and stated that it was my opinion. no need to make it personal.

migya wrote:

xbay wrote:Uh... Dwight Howard? Chris Bosh? I could name more if you want. You're telling me those guys aren't quicker and more athletic than The Dream or David Robinson? If anything, those guys are more fundamentally sound in the post than those two.

No way mate, Admiral and Dream had far more skills offensively and defensively than both Bosh and Dwight have ever had will likely ever have, not close

Oh no, I wasn't talking about that. Howard has virtually no post game. His post game is outmaneuvering his defender in the post so he can dunk it down. Bosh is perimeter oriented along with his quick foot work. Howard is very good defensively, but both of those legends were better. I meant those two would be a better fit than The Dream and Admiral in a fast break system. Both(David and Hakeem) are wonderful players, and if you put them in a half court system, and they'll dominate.

xbay wrote:

migya wrote:

xbay wrote:Uh... Dwight Howard? Chris Bosh? I could name more if you want. You're telling me those guys aren't quicker and more athletic than The Dream or David Robinson? If anything, those guys are more fundamentally sound in the post than those two.

No way mate, Admiral and Dream had far more skills offensively and defensively than both Bosh and Dwight have ever had will likely ever have, not close

Oh no, I wasn't talking about that. Howard has virtually no post game. His post game is outmaneuvering his defender in the post so he can dunk it down. Bosh is perimeter oriented along with his quick foot work. Howard is very good defensively, but both of those legends were better. I meant those two would be a better fit than The Dream and Admiral in a fast break system. Both(David and Hakeem) are wonderful players, and if you put them in a half court system, and they'll dominate.

Both Hakeem and Admiral were great athletes and runners, especially Robinson who outran EVERYONE down the court. Think they beat Dwight an Bosh in that too

Akeem for 84 to 88 ran in a fastbreak offense with bill fitch. It was the most exciting basketball the nba has ever seen. Then in 88 to 93 he ran a post up offense. Then in 94 the nba starting turning into a hackfest of untalented thugs hacking and wacking every play and ruining the nba except for a few teams. So Hakeem played in both eras. Too bad navy held robinson back for 2 years cause he would got to play kareem, moses and ralph sampson plus a younger manute bol, mark eaton, patrick ewing, robert parish, mchale, laimbeer, mahorn, salley, tree rollins, jack sikma, james donalsson, roy tarpley, sam perkins, brad daugherty, tom chambers, steve johnson and hakeem. Hakeem vs robinson in 87-88 would have even legendary.

Hakeem v Robinson was always a great matchup, every time

migya wrote:Hakeem v Robinson was always a great matchup, every time

Hakeem owned Robinson whenever it mattered imo

Quazza wrote:

migya wrote:Hakeem v Robinson was always a great matchup, every time

Hakeem owned Robinson whenever it mattered imo

He outplayed Robinson in the 1994-95 Western Conference Finals, that was the only claim that can be made for Hakeem really outplaying Robinson. Robinson outplayed a few times in the early 90s and vice versa, it was quite an even matchup

olajuwon was a better player than robinson and the 95 series is the measuring point. same thing goes for the shaq and ewing series.

fastbreak wrote:olajuwon was a better player than robinson and the 95 series is the measuring point. same thing goes for the shaq and ewing series.

That series was just a number of games where Olajuwon outplayed Robinson, that's all. Robinson outplayed Hakeem quite a few times in his first two seasons. Olajuwon was better but not by that much

migya wrote:

xbay wrote:

migya wrote:

xbay wrote:Uh... Dwight Howard? Chris Bosh? I could name more if you want. You're telling me those guys aren't quicker and more athletic than The Dream or David Robinson? If anything, those guys are more fundamentally sound in the post than those two.

No way mate, Admiral and Dream had far more skills offensively and defensively than both Bosh and Dwight have ever had will likely ever have, not close

Oh no, I wasn't talking about that. Howard has virtually no post game. His post game is outmaneuvering his defender in the post so he can dunk it down. Bosh is perimeter oriented along with his quick foot work. Howard is very good defensively, but both of those legends were better. I meant those two would be a better fit than The Dream and Admiral in a fast break system. Both(David and Hakeem) are wonderful players, and if you put them in a half court system, and they'll dominate.

Both Hakeem and Admiral were great athletes and runners, especially Robinson who outran EVERYONE down the court. Think they beat Dwight an Bosh in that too

Well... we'll never know. We can only think of it. We'll never truly find out.

And that's the beauty of making an opinion, my good friend.

Quazza wrote:

migya wrote:Hakeem v Robinson was always a great matchup, every time

Hakeem owned Robinson whenever it mattered imo

Exactly. It wasn't even close. The Admiral was great (don't get me started on Ewing, tho), but Hakeem was much better in clutch time. And always outplayed Robinson when healthy.

Actually, he even outplayed Shaq when healthy...

xbay wrote:

migya wrote:

xbay wrote:

migya wrote:

xbay wrote:Uh... Dwight Howard? Chris Bosh? I could name more if you want. You're telling me those guys aren't quicker and more athletic than The Dream or David Robinson? If anything, those guys are more fundamentally sound in the post than those two.

No way mate, Admiral and Dream had far more skills offensively and defensively than both Bosh and Dwight have ever had will likely ever have, not close

Oh no, I wasn't talking about that. Howard has virtually no post game. His post game is outmaneuvering his defender in the post so he can dunk it down. Bosh is perimeter oriented along with his quick foot work. Howard is very good defensively, but both of those legends were better. I meant those two would be a better fit than The Dream and Admiral in a fast break system. Both(David and Hakeem) are wonderful players, and if you put them in a half court system, and they'll dominate.

Both Hakeem and Admiral were great athletes and runners, especially Robinson who outran EVERYONE down the court. Think they beat Dwight an Bosh in that too

Well... we'll never know. We can only think of it. We'll never truly find out.

And that's the beauty of making an opinion, my good friend.

We all have our opinions, that's great. I was just saying that both Robinson and Hakeem had all the skills and were great athletes. Bosh and Dwight have a long way to go before they can seriously be looked at the same level. As athletes, it is close, but Hakeem and Robinson were great athletes well into their thirties

TMC wrote:

Quazza wrote:

migya wrote:Hakeem v Robinson was always a great matchup, every time

Hakeem owned Robinson whenever it mattered imo

Exactly. It wasn't even close. The Admiral was great (don't get me started on Ewing, tho), but Hakeem was much better in clutch time. And always outplayed Robinson when healthy.

Actually, he even outplayed Shaq when healthy...

Olajuwon was better than Robinson, the best Center of his era actually, but the difference between him and Robinson was small. Robinson's biggest downfall, and the reason he is not looked at by nba analysts alltime wiseas being anywhere near as good as Olajuwon, is that he did not step in the clutch alot, he had his moments, but the man did choke a few times. The Spurs would have won in the playoffs much more if Robinson had stepped up more at the end of games. The Spurs, before Duncan arrived, under Robinson had a pretty bad playoff record, losing in the 1st round the first round in his 2nd (to RunTMC Warriors, 3rd (to Phoenix BUT Robinson was injured for all of that series so doesn't count) and 5th seasons (to Utah).

They had a 27-26 playoff record that Robinson played in BEFORE Duncan arrived. I like David Robinson very much and he is one of the greatest players ever, perhaps the most physically imposing together with athletic player ever, but he didn't take his team to wins in the playoffs like other alltime greats did