migya wrote:

Mr. Crackerz wrote:I love it how we have and will continue to use this thread for probably the rest of his career... baron always is hurt, and despite what everyone says, i don't miss him. But i will admit, i'd have baron>maggs/crawful any day.

And Maggette wil always be injured and Crawford will always be on a losing team

Very true. Crawford is just one of those players that will shoot his team out of games more often than he will shoot his team to a win. Mostly because NONE of the shots he takes are really HIGH percentage shots.

What I don't get is why the warriors felt they needed him. Our teams offense is (was) too good to have to live and die by a streaky shooter like Crawford. I mean why should we have to rely on a guy like that when we have so many other scoring options?

David Wood wrote:What I don't get is why the warriors felt they needed him.

im not sure they really felt they needed him...i think it was more that harrington wanted a trade so they tried to get the best ball handler they could for harrington. they probably could have pulled a 2-for-1 with someone else but the warriors had roster problems already, so they felt this was the best 1-for-1 they could have gotten.

anyone watch baron's game lately.

Dunleavy has him standing at the 3 point arc passing to Zach Randolph so Zbo can shoot the ball.

Occasionally Baron will chuck a 3 and occasionally he'll charge into the lane and miss a layup.

Something he runs the fast break... but only if he feels like it.

Its sad to see someone like Baron turned into this.

saintdee wrote:anyone watch baron's game lately.

Dunleavy has him standing at the 3 point arc passing to Zach Randolph so Zbo can shoot the ball.

Occasionally Baron will chuck a 3 and occasionally he'll charge into the lane and miss a layup.

Something he runs the fast break... but only if he feels like it.

Its sad to see someone like Baron turned into this.

I didn't know he was back from his bruised ass yet.

And he must be doing something right though, he's had 8 assists in each of the last three games.

Oh he's shot 27-86 since he's been back (31%) OUCH!

Captain_Jack wrote:

saintdee wrote:anyone watch baron's game lately.

Dunleavy has him standing at the 3 point arc passing to Zach Randolph so Zbo can shoot the ball.

Occasionally Baron will chuck a 3 and occasionally he'll charge into the lane and miss a layup.

Something he runs the fast break... but only if he feels like it.

Its sad to see someone like Baron turned into this.

I didn't know he was back from his bruised ass yet.

And he must be doing something right though, he's had 8 assists in each of the last three games.

Yeah, hes been back 3 or 4 games now..............but shooting and generally playing horribly.

Although, this is more than likely to do with saintdee's description of his role right now............I can see him being moved in the off season.

Wanna know something funny, as worshiped as Baron is on amongst Warriors fans, him and Jack have almost identical career numbers. The one big difference is in assists per game, seeing as how Baron is a PG and Jack is not (although Jack's APG this season is double his career number). Baron has the slight edge (by tenths of a point) in all categories except that Jack's shooting percentages are all better (again by tenths of a point). It's very interesting to see considering most think of them as two totally different caliber players.

bigstrads wrote:

Captain_Jack wrote:

saintdee wrote:anyone watch baron's game lately.

Dunleavy has him standing at the 3 point arc passing to Zach Randolph so Zbo can shoot the ball.

Occasionally Baron will chuck a 3 and occasionally he'll charge into the lane and miss a layup.

Something he runs the fast break... but only if he feels like it.

Its sad to see someone like Baron turned into this.

I didn't know he was back from his bruised ass yet.

And he must be doing something right though, he's had 8 assists in each of the last three games.

Yeah, hes been back 3 or 4 games now..............but shooting and generally playing horribly.

Although, this is more than likely to do with saintdee's description of his role right now............I can see him being moved in the off season.

haha he's shot like 3 airballs too since coming back. Sportscenter was mocking him and his teammates these last couple games.

Mr. Crackerz wrote:

bigstrads wrote:

Captain_Jack wrote:

saintdee wrote:anyone watch baron's game lately.

Dunleavy has him standing at the 3 point arc passing to Zach Randolph so Zbo can shoot the ball.

Occasionally Baron will chuck a 3 and occasionally he'll charge into the lane and miss a layup.

Something he runs the fast break... but only if he feels like it.

Its sad to see someone like Baron turned into this.

I didn't know he was back from his bruised ass yet.

And he must be doing something right though, he's had 8 assists in each of the last three games.

Yeah, hes been back 3 or 4 games now..............but shooting and generally playing horribly.

Although, this is more than likely to do with saintdee's description of his role right now............I can see him being moved in the off season.

haha he's shot like 3 airballs too since coming back. Sportscenter was mocking him and his teammates these last couple games.

It's nice to know that we aren't the worst team in the league by any stretch of the imagination.

Captain_Jack wrote:

Mr. Crackerz wrote:

bigstrads wrote:

Captain_Jack wrote:

saintdee wrote:anyone watch baron's game lately.

Dunleavy has him standing at the 3 point arc passing to Zach Randolph so Zbo can shoot the ball.

Occasionally Baron will chuck a 3 and occasionally he'll charge into the lane and miss a layup.

Something he runs the fast break... but only if he feels like it.

Its sad to see someone like Baron turned into this.

I didn't know he was back from his bruised ass yet.

And he must be doing something right though, he's had 8 assists in each of the last three games.

Yeah, hes been back 3 or 4 games now..............but shooting and generally playing horribly.

Although, this is more than likely to do with saintdee's description of his role right now............I can see him being moved in the off season.

haha he's shot like 3 airballs too since coming back. Sportscenter was mocking him and his teammates these last couple games.

It's nice to know that we aren't the worst team in the league by any stretch of the imagination.

hey, by the end of the season, we could be # 2 in the division

Captain_Jack wrote:Wanna know something funny, as worshiped as Baron is on amongst Warriors fans, him and Jack have almost identical career numbers. The one big difference is in assists per game, seeing as how Baron is a PG and Jack is not (although Jack's APG this season is double his career number). Baron has the slight edge (by tenths of a point) in all categories except that Jack's shooting percentages are all better (again by tenths of a point). It's very interesting to see considering most think of them as two totally different caliber players.

Thing is Cap............its not about the numbers when comparing these two.

For me, when Baron was chucking and not playing very well, my reaction would always be = "Ohh well, its Baron, in a minute hes going to make a spectacular/game changing play that will make me forget that he just threw up that horrible shot"

With Jax, even when he makes those chucks............it makes me angry and annoyed as hell, as I know that that is the extent to which he will influence the game and is pretty much the best you are going to get out of him.

Also, Baron IS a leader, a general, a team moral officer, a rally'er of players, a guy who makes others around him better...........plus, he was/is capable of doing whatever he wants on the floor.

Jax THINKS hes a leader, he moans and bitches constantly, he tries to do things he is simply not capable of and as far as I can see...........he doesnt lead players or make them better.

Thats why I love/loved Baron so much more over Jax, and why I dont feel like a hypocrite (which is what you are getting at right? ) when hating on Jax...........regardless of what the numbers say.

Mr. Crackerz wrote:

Captain_Jack wrote:

Mr. Crackerz wrote:

bigstrads wrote:

Captain_Jack wrote:

saintdee wrote:anyone watch baron's game lately.

Dunleavy has him standing at the 3 point arc passing to Zach Randolph so Zbo can shoot the ball.

Occasionally Baron will chuck a 3 and occasionally he'll charge into the lane and miss a layup.

Something he runs the fast break... but only if he feels like it.

Its sad to see someone like Baron turned into this.

I didn't know he was back from his bruised ass yet.

And he must be doing something right though, he's had 8 assists in each of the last three games.

Yeah, hes been back 3 or 4 games now..............but shooting and generally playing horribly.

Although, this is more than likely to do with saintdee's description of his role right now............I can see him being moved in the off season.

haha he's shot like 3 airballs too since coming back. Sportscenter was mocking him and his teammates these last couple games.

It's nice to know that we aren't the worst team in the league by any stretch of the imagination.

hey, by the end of the season, we could be # 2 in the division

Ha ha, very true. Although we'd have to go on one hell of a run and Phoenix...well they'd just have to keep doing what they're doing.

Wow, the East is so much better this year. Aside from Washington, every team has more wins than the W's. Kinda scary.

bigstrads wrote:

Captain_Jack wrote:Wanna know something funny, as worshiped as Baron is on amongst Warriors fans, him and Jack have almost identical career numbers. The one big difference is in assists per game, seeing as how Baron is a PG and Jack is not (although Jack's APG this season is double his career number). Baron has the slight edge (by tenths of a point) in all categories except that Jack's shooting percentages are all better (again by tenths of a point). It's very interesting to see considering most think of them as two totally different caliber players.

Thing is Cap............its not about the numbers when comparing these two.

For me, when Baron was chucking and not playing very well, my reaction would always be = "Ohh well, its Baron, in a minute hes going to make a spectacular/game changing play that will make me forget that he just threw up that horrible shot"

With Jax, even when he makes those chucks............it makes me angry and annoyed as hell, as I know that that is the extent to which he will influence the game and is pretty much the best you are going to get out of him.

Also, Baron IS a leader, a general, a team moral officer, a rally'er of players, a guy who makes others around him better...........plus, he was/is capable of doing whatever he wants on the floor.

Jax THINKS hes a leader, he moans and bitches constantly, he tries to do things he is simply not capable of and as far as I can see...........he doesnt lead players or make them better.

Thats why I love/loved Baron so much more over Jax, and why I dont feel like a hypocrite (which is what you are getting at right? ) when hating on Jax...........regardless of what the numbers say.

Baron's only a leader WHEN HE wants to be a leader. He isn't a leader in Clipperland that's for sure because he isn't motivated by anything. If he comes here he wont be a leader because he knows the warriors arent going anywhere anyways.

bigstrads wrote:

Captain_Jack wrote:Wanna know something funny, as worshiped as Baron is on amongst Warriors fans, him and Jack have almost identical career numbers. The one big difference is in assists per game, seeing as how Baron is a PG and Jack is not (although Jack's APG this season is double his career number). Baron has the slight edge (by tenths of a point) in all categories except that Jack's shooting percentages are all better (again by tenths of a point). It's very interesting to see considering most think of them as two totally different caliber players.

Thing is Cap............its not about the numbers when comparing these two.

For me, when Baron was chucking and not playing very well, my reaction would always be = "Ohh well, its Baron, in a minute hes going to make a spectacular/game changing play that will make me forget that he just threw up that horrible shot"

With Jax, even when he makes those chucks............it makes me angry and annoyed as hell, as I know that that is the extent to which he will influence the game and is pretty much the best you are going to get out of him.

Also, Baron IS a leader, a general, a team moral officer, a rally'er of players, a guy who makes others around him better...........plus, he was/is capable of doing whatever he wants on the floor.

Jax THINKS hes a leader, he moans and bitches constantly, he tries to do things he is simply not capable of and as far as I can see...........he doesnt lead players or make them better.

Thats why I love/loved Baron so much more over Jax, and why I dont feel like a hypocrite (which is what you are getting at right? ) when hating on Jax...........regardless of what the numbers say.

And I disagree with most of the things said. I think your point of view is mostly about perspective. Just like you said, when Baron starts chucking you laugh it off and say, "oh he'll hit something soon", but when Jack does it, even if he does hit a big shot everyone is saying "it's about freaking time, now you're 3-10, you suck". It's the same situation, but a different attitude about it. Baron does not make any more big game-changing shots than Jack does, but most fans have decided that he does so they have that interpretation of him. Baron shot us out of plenty of games and missed plenty of buzzer beaters with us, problem is no one remembers those games, they were too busy remembering Baron dunking on Kirilenko in a useless playoff series we never had a chance at winning to pay attention. No one ever mentions Jack's clutch play throughout the end of the 06-07 season, it's all about Baron and his "amazing" useless dunk.

Baron complained just as much as Jack does and got techs just as often. Baron is a high energy (when he feels like it) motivational guy, and yes he gets guys pumped up when he makes big shots. Jack is a teacher, Jack is the guy you see on the sidelines explaining to someone what they did wrong, what they could do next time, etc. Jack will most likely become a coach after playing, he fits that role perfectly. Baron would be a horrible coach...and don't try to argue, you know he would be. They are different kinds of leaders and one is not better than the other. The best situation is to have the two kinds together.

I agree that Jack does things that he's not capable of and yes sometimes I get frustrated when he tries too hard to make something happen, however I don't see it as something you can fault him for. I don't understand why people get angry at him for putting his heart and soul into carrying this team, even when it's too big of a burden for him to handle. Baron would NEVER have put the kind of effort and energy that Jack has into being the backbone of this team. Baron can barely put the time and effort in to help his own career, let alone a team.

Not to mention that since the guys around Jack have stepped up the last few weeks, his level of play has elevated significantly. Having someone to share the role of "face of the franchise" with (Monta), has made Jack take a step back and re-assume the role he is better suited for. I mean my god, the poor guy was playing PG because Nelson asked him to....PG...are you kidding me? By the way, he averages less turnovers per game than Baron and actually Steve Nash...but the way people talk around here you'd think he had 50 a game

And no I don't think Stephen Jackson is an all-star (just in case Coach decides to say that I do again), and no I don't think he's the best player ever, hell he's not even my favorite player on the team. He has tons of flaws, but so does every player on this team, and so does Baron Davis, people just choose to remember it differently. I just like to give Jack credit for doing the things the coaches ask of him and for sacrificing for this team, instead of criticizing every mistake he makes just because I've decided he's no good.

Sucks that Baron isn't even a starter anymore. ****ing Dunleavy sucks.

Wow, Capt... I never knew you liked typing paragraphs here. I thought I remember you saying you never read anything longer than a paragraph.

Anyways, I completely agree with what you said. People tend to look more at Baron's success than his flaws because of how the franchise completely changed when he was acquired. Losing culture, no significant star. He's acquired, and the Warriors have a promising run to end the season. Next season, he lets us down by an injury just like he did many times in Charlotte and New Orleans. He revives his career during the 05-06 season by leading the upset over the Mavericks. Next season, he has a career year, but no playoffs.

Baron hits big shots, Jack hits big shots. Baron pumps up a crowd, Jack pumps up a crowd. Baron pouts and whines, Jack pouts and whines. Baron has done what Jack has done many times in his career. We just tend to avoid bringing it up because he was labeled our "savior" and all. Let's face it... if it wasn't for Mullin, we would of never had Baron, Jackson, Monta, Biedrins, or Wright. Same goes for Mullin, he has his flaws, but he brought in those guys. Who's to say that if Mullin wasn't the man at the time, that the other person may have brought in those guys?