West hinting that Monta's on his way out?

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:48 am
The last time I checked, Monta is a wing player which is why there is a lack of defense on the wing. Wright is a 6th man, but his defense isn't that bad and under a different coach, he could be a really good defender. Fans are so enamored by the scoring prowess of Ellis that they tend to overlook his inabilities to defend, handle the ball, pass the ball or shoot free throws at a decent clip (for a SG). There is much more to the game than just scoring. Just ask great players like Lebron, Kobe or even a guy like Jordan who are all members of the All Defensive First Team, something that Ellis will probably never accomplish. Then you have players like Jason Kidd, who can't score but finds a way to dominate a game regardless and is another member of the defensive first team as well.

If Monta is this great player, then they should have teams calling about him, but the truth will be, he will be difficult to move, especially if they want some value back.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:58 am
BayAreaHoopz wrote:The last time I checked, Monta is a wing player which is why there is a lack of defense on the wing. Wright is a 6th man, but his defense isn't that bad and under a different coach, he could be a really good defender. Fans are so enamored by the scoring prowess of Ellis that they tend to overlook his inabilities to defend, handle the ball, pass the ball or shoot free throws at a decent clip (for a SG). There is much more to the game than just scoring. Just ask great players like Lebron, Kobe or even a guy like Jordan who are all members of the All Defensive First Team, something that Ellis will probably never accomplish. Then you have players like Jason Kidd, who can't score but finds a way to dominate a game regardless and is another member of the defensive first team as well.

If Monta is this great player, then they should have teams calling about him, but the truth will be, he will be difficult to move, especially if they want some value back.


I get what you're trying to say but Monta does more than just score. Monta has the speed and slashing ability to break down a defense completely. That is not as easily reaplacable as 20 PPG. It is something no one else on this team can do consistently and is necessary in this league. Scoring is replaceable, but not every team has an ELITE slasher like Rose, Wade, Westbrook and yes ELLIS. He also finishes at a higher % in the paint than these players (and any guard in the NBA) despite only getting around the same amount of FTA's per game as players like Michael Beasley. All of these teams (Heat, Bulls and Thunder) also made it to their conference finals even though none of these players (except Wade) are very good defenders.

Also Ellis does more than just score. He had some of the best all around stats for any SG in the league not named Wade or Kobe. Yes I know he gets more minutes and doesn't quite have the same teammates, but both of those arguments are double edged swords if you are going to use them specifically against Monta. Over 5 assists for a SG who shares the ball with Curry and has no legitimate low post player for easy assists. If by your definition Monta's impact outside of scoring is not helping the team at all based on his stats, pretty much no SG in the league offers more also. Check out the stats Joe Johnson brings as the highest paid SG in the league. And yes I know other can offer other things like defense (Bogans, Sefalosha) but ask fans of teams with such starting SGs about their feelings on the position and they will tell you that is why they are at home now.

NBA is a star driven league (hence why some people believe NY broke even in the Denver trade). And although he is not technically an all-star, although coaches like Phil Jackson disagreed with the snub, he is the biggest star on the team and the best player. I would not have nearly the problem trading him if Curry actually was ready to take over this team. But he has not shown the ability to be a true floor general consistently enough yet. Until Curry is mentioned in the top 5-7 PGs in the leage and we have another legit wing scorer (Dorrell Wright can not handle or create his own shot) we are better off keeping Monta.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:01 pm
Dorrell Wright's defense is ATROCIOUS. He NEEDS to be on the bench. Still remember being at the Raptors game and him getting DOMINATED by JAMES JOHNSON
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:42 pm
Dr. Spaceman wrote:
BayAreaHoopz wrote:The last time I checked, Monta is a wing player which is why there is a lack of defense on the wing. Wright is a 6th man, but his defense isn't that bad and under a different coach, he could be a really good defender. Fans are so enamored by the scoring prowess of Ellis that they tend to overlook his inabilities to defend, handle the ball, pass the ball or shoot free throws at a decent clip (for a SG). There is much more to the game than just scoring. Just ask great players like Lebron, Kobe or even a guy like Jordan who are all members of the All Defensive First Team, something that Ellis will probably never accomplish. Then you have players like Jason Kidd, who can't score but finds a way to dominate a game regardless and is another member of the defensive first team as well.

If Monta is this great player, then they should have teams calling about him, but the truth will be, he will be difficult to move, especially if they want some value back.


I get what you're trying to say but Monta does more than just score. Monta has the speed and slashing ability to break down a defense completely. That is not as easily reaplacable as 20 PPG. It is something no one else on this team can do consistently and is necessary in this league. Scoring is replaceable, but not every team has an ELITE slasher like Rose, Wade, Westbrook and yes ELLIS. He also finishes at a higher % in the paint than these players (and any guard in the NBA) despite only getting around the same amount of FTA's per game as players like Michael Beasley. All of these teams (Heat, Bulls and Thunder) also made it to their conference finals even though none of these players (except Wade) are very good defenders.

Also Ellis does more than just score. He had some of the best all around stats for any SG in the league not named Wade or Kobe. Yes I know he gets more minutes and doesn't quite have the same teammates, but both of those arguments are double edged swords if you are going to use them specifically against Monta. Over 5 assists for a SG who shares the ball with Curry and has no legitimate low post player for easy assists. If by your definition Monta's impact outside of scoring is not helping the team at all based on his stats, pretty much no SG in the league offers more also. Check out the stats Joe Johnson brings as the highest paid SG in the league. And yes I know other can offer other things like defense (Bogans, Sefalosha) but ask fans of teams with such starting SGs about their feelings on the position and they will tell you that is why they are at home now.

NBA is a star driven league (hence why some people believe NY broke even in the Denver trade). And although he is not technically an all-star, although coaches like Phil Jackson disagreed with the snub, he is the biggest star on the team and the best player. I would not have nearly the problem trading him if Curry actually was ready to take over this team. But he has not shown the ability to be a true floor general consistently enough yet. Until Curry is mentioned in the top 5-7 PGs in the leage and we have another legit wing scorer (Dorrell Wright can not handle or create his own shot) we are better off keeping Monta.

I've actually been riding the fence on the whole Ellis debate, but these two post may have just pushed me over to the side of being in favor of keeping him. Especially the idea that we'll never get much back for Monta except some cap relief, makes me want to hang on to him for at least 1-2 more seasons.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:51 pm
Beast Mode wrote:Dorrell Wright's defense is ATROCIOUS. He NEEDS to be on the bench. Still remember being at the Raptors game and him getting DOMINATED by JAMES JOHNSON


i was at that game and witnessed that as well... but NOBODY on that court played defence that day... NOOOOOBBODDDDYYYYYYY
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:37 am
It should not only be Monta on the trading block.

Every player on this team is expendable; the team needs to be blown up and rebuilt from the ground up. Nobody on the roster should be considered untouchable. Let's face it; this team is horrible and that we now have new ownership, a new front office, and, hopefully soon, a new coach, the team is ready to do what should have been done years ago: architect and rebuild with a plan, not react and hope.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:43 pm
I don't know about blowing up the entire roster - we still had a better record then 10 other teams in the league, when we hit rock-bottom (dead last), then I'm all about dealing everyone down to the equipment manager. I agree that a full rebuilding phase would have been the best for this team a few years ago, but it's too late for that now.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:19 pm
I know it's Tim K and all speculation but take it for what it's worth:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2011/05/31/trade-monta-ellis-jerry-west-just-might-be-the-guy-to-do-it/

Memphis has liked Ellis for a while and although he doesn't provide much more scoring than Gay, he is cheaper which will help them to resign Gasol.

I'd do this trade if we could also include someone like Dorrell Wright for Darrell Arthur. Memphis would probably prefer Mayo. He would be aperfect big to bring off the bench as he has the size and athleticism to thrive in both half court and full court offense. If he does really well, it makes getting rid of Lee easier too.

Then use the #11 pick to draft a SG like Burks. Such a trade would add some size to the team without getting rid of any scoring.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:24 pm
We either trade Monta for an upcoming Center (Marc gasol at minimum) or an elite wing player (Rudy Gay is a 6'8 Monta that doesn't play defense... do not want) ...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:30 pm
i remember reading an article 2 or 3 years back when we still had jamal crawford and it showed a defensive rating system think and it had rudy gay and jamal crawford as the WORST defensive players.... i'd prefer granger... doubt we can get em tho
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:44 pm
Dr. Spaceman wrote:I know it's Tim K and all speculation but take it for what it's worth:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2011/05/31/trade-monta-ellis-jerry-west-just-might-be-the-guy-to-do-it/

Memphis has liked Ellis for a while and although he doesn't provide much more scoring than Gay, he is cheaper which will help them to resign Gasol.

I'd do this trade if we could also include someone like Dorrell Wright for Darrell Arthur. Memphis would probably prefer Mayo. He would be aperfect big to bring off the bench as he has the size and athleticism to thrive in both half court and full court offense. If he does really well, it makes getting rid of Lee easier too.

Then use the #11 pick to draft a SG like Burks. Such a trade would add some size to the team without getting rid of any scoring.


no, no, and no again. Monta is only going for two players on that team, and I'm sure you know who they are.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:35 pm
Memphis is not trading Marc Gasol. We have talked about that for MONTHS on this board, and the team has NEVER given any indication he would trade him, and has actually said the opposite. Maybe Jerry West working with the man he mentored could get it done, but I doubt it.

Now I know it isn't the best trade, but the one i proposed gives us a legit go-to scorer (what we are losing) in return, and could give us legitimate size at our wing positions as well as possibly a young up and coming athletic big. Rudy is a more efficient scorer than Monta and if he didn't have to share the ball with Randolph, would probably have higher scoring numbers. And he is not as bad at defense as you are all making him out to be. Just because in his second year in the NBA as a terrible team's best player he was at the bottom does not mean he is still terrible on defense, and if you ask Grizzlie's fans they would agree.

Based on the value a lot of people seem to think Monta have, getting a player like Gay back (although his contract is much worse) is not a bad deal. However, I would only do the deal if a solid complimentary player that addresses our depth and size concerns (like Darrell Arthur) is included along in the deal. Both Arthur and Gay have the size and athleticism to help in half court game that we get killed in and play to our strengths like pushing the ball when able.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:55 pm
Yeah, no way we get Gasol and we need more then Gay for Ellis - I'm not overvaluing Monta here either, taking on Gay's contract with Lee and Beans' salaries would cripple us for many years. If they would agree to take Beans and give us something back in return (expiring maybe...), I'd consider it if we get some cap space for the 2012-13 season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:51 am
I can't believe you all so hi for the Pau Gasol photocopy. If AB get's his mind straight he is better. Please this is not the center i would want for the Warriors even if i could get him as a free agent.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:32 am
The rumors has that Ellis will be moved on draft day. I wonder if that means he will be traded for a draft pick like Jason Richardson. Not many teams are under the cap and could use Monta. Sacramento is one of those team who have the 7th pick and are under the cap.

Here is a semi-complicated 3 team draft day trade scenario...it won't happen, but if it did...woohoo.

Philadelphia
Outgoing : Evan Turner, Mareese Speights and Lou Williams
Incoming: David Lee and the #7 pick

The get a nice high pick to compensate for Turner. David Lee gives them a great piece to replace Elton Brand or they could play one of them at the center position. At 7, they can nab a guy like Jan Vesely if he's available. The key is that they get to keep Andre Iguodala and Holiday.

Sacramento
Outgoing: The 7th Pick, Jason Thompson and Omri Casspi
Incoming: Monta Ellis and the #11 pick

This move would be nice for the Kings as well. Mocks have them taking either Knight or Walker so a point guard is a glaring need for them. Ellis isn't a conventional point guard, but with Tyreke Evans' ability to play the point and being 6'6, it could work out well for them. Casspi has been benched due to him not being a part of the future and Thompson gets little playing time as well. With the 11th pick, they can target a small forward like Singleton or Harris.

Golden State
Outgoing: Monta Ellis, David Lee and the 11th pick
Incoming: Evan Turner, Mareese Speights, Lou Williams, Omri Casspi and Jason Thompson

For the Warriors, Casspi is 23 years old and still hasn't reached his potential. He's an athletic, 6'9 small forward that is a willing defender. He can also rebound, handle the ball and shoot the jumper. He still has a chance to become a Kirilenko type player in the league. Thompson adds some depth in the front court. He has struggled thus far, but he has the potential to be a shot blocker, rebounder and shot blocker.

They get a key player to help build around with Evan Turner paired with Curry. His ability to pass the ball makes him a great backcourt mate to Steph. Turner can also play some defense as well and could be a great rebounder from the SG position.

Line up:

PG Stephen Curry - Lou Williams - Jeremy Lin
SG Evan Turner - Reggie Williams - Charlie Bell
SF Dorell Wright - Omri Casspi
PF Ekpe Udoh - Mareese Speights
C Andris Biedrins - Jason Thompson - Lou Amundson
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