What beat the Grizzlies...

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Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, 32


All Star
Posts: 1218
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:24 am
The Grizzlies are big, mobile and good. The Ws weren't shooting well. In years past they would have lost that game last night.

What won it this time? Sure, there is the vastly better rebounding, the vastly better defense, but the final push was fueled by......





Substitutions!!! Nelson would have left Ellis in for 48 minutes, along with the other key players like he always did. We would have seen a tired team firing up long shots, clanking them off of the front of the rim and the Ws would have lost. We saw that for years.

Instead, even after a frustrating night of poor shooting, this team had the energy to rebound, defend and to make shots at the end.

Smart is proving to be a very good coach indeed.

Rookie
Posts: 134
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:17 am
on top of substitution, I think Smart is allowing these guys to play and learn through their mistakes. No short hooks. Smart is realizing that you can win withouth your bench, regardless how bad Vlad has been shooting you have to continue to rotate him in because he can spread the floor.

Same thing for Carney, stupid mistakes but playing hard and playing aggressive. Even Charlie Bell played well and played aggressive.
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Franchise Player
Posts: 5907
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:51 am
carlgo wrote:Substitutions!!! Nelson would have left Ellis in for 48 minutes, along with the other key players like he always did.
.


It amazes me how little the average warrior fan wants to admit when it comes to Don Nelson!

Not pointing fingers at you directly Cargo, But C'mon Bro... Did you see the injury depleted squads Don Nelson had of the last 2 years. There's a reason that Monta was playing 48 minutes a game last year & it was due to having a bench of 8 or so DLeaguers.

When your rolling with substitutions like Tolliver, R.Williams, CJ Watson whom are NBDL products (& should really be flipping burgers or stocking grocery shelves at Safeway) then sometimes you gotta roll with burning out the superstar with 48 minutes.

I think Keith Smart has stepped into a very promising situation where finally he has a team of 12 healthy NBA players (not a team of 5 nba players and 8 NBDL'ers).

FWIW... I was pissed when they fired Don Nelson, But Keith Smart is really impressing me. the timeout he called last night when the score was 5-2 and minutes young... he would of just told the team to calm down.
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Moderator
Posts: 2442
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:17 pm
Pawno, even though you have some point, I just have to remind you that all of those players you mentioned ( Watson, Reggie Williams, Tolliver) are still in the league, two of them in other clubs. Which means that you're not right when you say that they should be flipping burgers. CJ Watson is doing OK for the time he gets to play in the game, and Tolliver is looking quite good for time being.

Anyway, you are right about that in a way, cause Smart does have a more quality team than Nelson had.
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Rookie
Posts: 24
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:43 pm
Former DLeaguer C.Martin hit a huge shot to take a game into OT the other night for the Wizards. He gets some PT

Rookie
Posts: 134
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:48 pm
I think Pawno was referring to your DeMarcus Nelsons, Koby Carls, and the time when we had 6 players... and two of them fouled out....
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Franchise Player
Posts: 5907
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:30 pm
Guybrush wrote:Pawno, even though you have some point, I just have to remind you that all of those players you mentioned ( Watson, Reggie Williams, Tolliver) are still in the league, two of them in other clubs. Which means that you're not right when you say that they should be flipping burgers. CJ Watson is doing OK for the time he gets to play in the game, and Tolliver is looking quite good for time being.

Anyway, you are right about that in a way, cause Smart does have a more quality team than Nelson had.


(PRE) PRO BASKETBALL CAREER of flipping Burgers. 8)

The reason they still in the league is cause Nelson exposed them to the minutes which was the cause of a injury ravaged team.

I gaurentee that had Anthony Randolph,Branden Wright, Radmonavic, Turiaf & Andris Biedrins had been healthy then even if we signed a guy like Tolliver for the original 10 day contract (& not a day more) then Tolliver in 2010-2011 would be either playing in Europe or handing off his resume at Dennys or Applebees.
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All Star
Posts: 2562
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:43 pm
For some reason I'm not at all surprised Pawno was mad when Don Nelson got fired. Actually I think it confirms my prior notions of Pawno :wink:

All Star
Posts: 1218
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:18 pm
Nelson had the same insane substitution policy when he had full squads. Remember the players in the doghouse, those "not ready to play". He substituted mostly because of foul trouble, not for fatigue.

There were all those late-game narrow losses because they couldn't play. No defense, as much do to fatigue as anything. No rebounding? Partly because he wouldn't play more than one big at a time and got obsessed with silly stuff like Maggette at center. This was crazy Nellie stuff, just pissing people off, trying to prove something, god knows what.

He actually did his best work with the depleted D-League teams because he simply didn't have enough players to screw with and he had to coach fairly rationally much of the time. It didn't hurt that new owners were coming in and Nelson had to know that most basketball people did not support his antics.

All Star
Posts: 1218
» Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:29 pm
DleagueDelight wrote:on top of substitution, I think Smart is allowing these guys to play and learn through their mistakes. No short hooks. Smart is realizing that you can win withouth your bench, regardless how bad Vlad has been shooting you have to continue to rotate him in because he can spread the floor.

Same thing for Carney, stupid mistakes but playing hard and playing aggressive. Even Charlie Bell played well and played aggressive.


Yes, good point. Note that it seems every single player contributed something positive, something that allowed that game to be won. This is a process of building unit cohesion, of making the subs not only feel valued but to actually be valuable in more than just killing off a few minutes.

This was the essence of the '75 Championship year, where the subs were a huge part of the team and even the superstar Barry played something like 37 minutes a game. They won over and over in the 4th quarter and the subs had huge crowd support.

Somebody outlined the contributions of the bench players on the Giants and how they, and even guys who were just up for a few games, were used as contributors and so they responded with various good plays over a long season that ended up with a championship. Subs under Nelson were just an annoyance to him and he hated to use them. As a result, they often played like whipped dogs and fulfilled Nelson's prophecy that they "weren't ready to play".

All Star
Posts: 2320
» Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:10 am
the usual bs crap, when it comes to nelson.
there's really only one thing that needs to be stated, nelson would too have this team at 3-1 (with the closer game against lakers) , and probably with the same statistics.
enough, friggin ideologues.
move the **** on.

btw, i love smart. when he learns to use pick 'n' roll, i will love him even more.

bitches barking 'bout old dogs, in a light of new ones, do you ever come of happiness or only of self-righteous 'i knew' thing? :mrgreen:

Starting Lineup
Posts: 913
» Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:32 am
Three simple reasons why won against the Grizzlies.

1. Standard lineup - would Nellie place Vlade or Gadz in the rotation? When Biedrins is out it is usually the slow moving Gadz ... which helps with defense, opponent has less second chance shots, and Warriors have better rebounding.
2. Star player is happy (although there is debate ... so far Ellis is a our star player and he did not like Nellie .. since Mullie got fired defending his contract and motorcycle accident.)
3. Head games missing (basically, Keith Smart is playing it straight, work hard on defense and practice .... you get minutes) He has a set rotation which went to pieces because of Mr. Olympic and gimpy ankles ... but without the flu and such, Smart is going to play the same 8-9 guys at the same starting lineup and rotations.
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All Star
Posts: 3618
» Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:00 pm
i think keith smart is a big reason why we're 3-1 right now

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