If trade rumors are true...

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Rookie
Posts: 149
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:56 pm
For what it's worth (not much to some, more to others, I get it.):
Monta was a genunine contributor on two successful Warriors teams - the We Believe team (when he won M.I.P. as a soph but disappeared in playoffs) & the 48 win team (the 60% fg for Feb. year). Then the brain-dead scooter incident = lost season, then this past season (very ugly despite a few bright spots), which gives credence to any frustation he had in now playing for a losing team.

Regardless, I have serious doubts that Cohan would allow these to happen as he wraps up the sale of the team:
A. Monta to be traded.
B. A 5 year, 65+mil contract to be added. [edit - just saw Bada's post & so I definitely don't see Cohan signing off on 6yrs 90mil]

But, I'm for it if it does happen & if AR is not part of the deal (& BW is)
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All Star
Posts: 1530
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:05 pm
Beast Mode wrote:Damn near done with this website.


First I heard angels singing. Then I drifted into a euphoric haze. I stayed there for awhile feeling happy. All seemed right with the world. Maybe the Warriors really could become a championship team some day.

Suddenly I felt a sharp pain. Like a dagger dipped in bullshit had been twisted into my spleen. As suddenly as I had felt the foreign sensation of happiness, I was back in the all too real world of misery, Nellie trading for David Lee and Beast posting on this forum.

Oh the humanity!!!
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All Star
Posts: 3242
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:06 pm
hahaha

I love the sexual tensionm between you two:P
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Franchise Player
Posts: 6107
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:19 pm
GoldenStJayhawk wrote:
Beast Mode wrote:He's not a horrible defender. He's not the greatest, but he's not horrible


That's what I thought but Kawakami and others have been saying that he wasn't just a bad defender but a terrible one. I've seen Lee play but I've never really focused too much on what he was doing on the defensive end. He never stood out to me as guy who was just getting destroyed by the player he was guarding.

Regardless, I'd take him on my team. Just not for max money and not for Ellis and AR.


He is a TERRIBLE post defender... and teams know it and abuse it! Nobody in the league faced most post up possession on defense than Lee. You dont force a matchup unless you know you have the advantage. And nobody in the league gave up more points per possession on post defense situations than Lee.

That is a bad combo... faced the most and gave up the most per possession. The rebounding point is a decent one... helping teams limit a team to one possession is great, but lets not let that hide the fact that he is perhaps the worst post defender in the league.

All Star
Posts: 1910
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:22 pm
bada wrote:
GoldenStJayhawk wrote:
Beast Mode wrote:He's not a horrible defender. He's not the greatest, but he's not horrible


That's what I thought but Kawakami and others have been saying that he wasn't just a bad defender but a terrible one. I've seen Lee play but I've never really focused too much on what he was doing on the defensive end. He never stood out to me as guy who was just getting destroyed by the player he was guarding.

Regardless, I'd take him on my team. Just not for max money and not for Ellis and AR.


He is a TERRIBLE post defender... and teams know it and abuse it! Nobody in the league faced most post up possession on defense than Lee. You dont force a matchup unless you know you have the advantage. And nobody in the league gave up more points per possession on post defense situations than Lee.

That is a bad combo... faced the most and gave up the most per possession. The rebounding point is a decent one... helping teams limit a team to one possession is great, but lets not let that hide the fact that he is perhaps the worst post defender in the league.


Yeah, but Bada, other than that, what don't you like about the guy? :mrgreen:
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Franchise Player
Posts: 6107
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:57 pm
I actually like the guy. Hard worker... gets more out of his game than probably he should...

Good athlete and good finisher and last year was flat out amazing from mid to deep range (16-23 feet). In fact he converted at a higher rate from that range than just about anyone in the league.

he is an AWESOME high post, pick n roll guy... him and curry could be devestating with that! And he is a terrific defensive rebounder. Lots to like with the guy.

I just want the NEW ownership to make the decision whether Lee at 6 years and 70+million is the right guy. I dont want Riley making that decision.

I am just shellshocked by the money being doled out right now. Based on our instability, I am more than happy to sit this out and be in great position financially for the future. That said, if it was JUST Monta, then I could get behind it... but I prefere if they do nothing.
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Role Player
Posts: 392
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:00 pm
bada wrote:
GoldenStJayhawk wrote:
Beast Mode wrote:He's not a horrible defender. He's not the greatest, but he's not horrible


That's what I thought but Kawakami and others have been saying that he wasn't just a bad defender but a terrible one. I've seen Lee play but I've never really focused too much on what he was doing on the defensive end. He never stood out to me as guy who was just getting destroyed by the player he was guarding.

Regardless, I'd take him on my team. Just not for max money and not for Ellis and AR.


He is a TERRIBLE post defender... and teams know it and abuse it! Nobody in the league faced most post up possession on defense than Lee. You dont force a matchup unless you know you have the advantage. And nobody in the league gave up more points per possession on post defense situations than Lee.

That is a bad combo... faced the most and gave up the most per possession. The rebounding point is a decent one... helping teams limit a team to one possession is great, but lets not let that hide the fact that he is perhaps the worst post defender in the league.


Kawakami said he had Lee on his all worst defense 2nd team. Said he was absolutely terrible. I didn't know that.

I knew he wasn't highly regarded on the defensive end but I didn't know he was one of the worst post defenders in the entire league. I still like Lee but no way in hell I'd give him a max contract. But I thought that even before I knew he was that bad of a defender.
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Role Player
Posts: 392
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:08 pm
bada wrote:I just want the NEW ownership to make the decision whether Lee at 6 years and 70+million is the right guy. I dont want Riley making that decision


That would probably be the most responsible thing to do. I think fans just get caught up in the chance to make a move now and possibly get better without thinking of how it would affect the team long term.

People around here are starved for a decent team and a playoff contender. Desperation doesn't usually produce solid decisions.
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Franchise Player
Posts: 6107
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:11 pm
GoldenStJayhawk wrote:
bada wrote:I just want the NEW ownership to make the decision whether Lee at 6 years and 70+million is the right guy. I dont want Riley making that decision


That would probably be the most responsible thing to do. I think fans just get caught up in the chance to make a move now and possibly get better without thinking of how it would affect the team long term.

People around here are starved for a decent team and a playoff contender. Desperation doesn't usually produce solid decisions.


I totally get that and dont blame anyone for feeling that way. But hopefully we are on the verge of this whole thing changing and actually behaving the way a REAL team does. We have waited nearly 20 years, we can wait one more painful year :mrgreen:
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Role Player
Posts: 419
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:33 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaENn-7t_hk[/youtube]
Only thing I'm worried about :roll:
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Hall of Famer
Posts: 18315
» Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:08 pm
bada wrote:I just want the NEW ownership to make the decision whether Lee at 6 years and 70+million is the right guy. I dont want Riley making that decision.


That would be the best course of action... but it's now or never. They won't get a second chance next year, so, if it has to be done, it will be now.

With that said... nothing forbids our current front office to check with those owners and get a yes or no regarding the trade. Don't know if they'll do it, but hey... it wouldn't be that hard, right?

Starting Lineup
Posts: 886
» Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:09 am
bada wrote:
Tarantism wrote:Lee isn't a post scorer. He has been spending the summer chucking three point shots and trying to become Troy Murphy.


Do you realize that Lee had more shots attempted at the rim than any PF or Center in basketball with the exception of Zach Randolph? Nearly 50% of his shots were within 1 foot of the rim.

True, he also takes a fair amount of shots from the 16-23 foot range. But you know what... he makes 43% of those. our very own SHOOTING guard Monta Ellis takes twice as many of those range shots and makes 37% of them.

So it is bad to have a PF/C that takes more shots at the rim than just about everyone else and converts 66% of those AND can step back and shot the rock better than our SG?


No Bada, I didn't realize that. Also, I appreciate you correcting me without being an ass about it. Same can't be said for some others.

All Star
Posts: 2885
» Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:59 am
With Randolph, Wright, and the Rookie; all of whom are younger and more athletic than Lee; wouldn't the Warriors be making a horizontal move by acquiring Lee?

What I would like to see is Riley putting together a balanced roster of complimentary players who all play defense, rebound, and play hard. That being said, can the Curry/Ellis backcourt thrive and allow this team to compete? I like both players; however, shouldn't one be traded away for a bigger two-guard?

Also, are we assuming too much by believing that trading away Biedrens would help this team? Who else on the roster has the skills to be a starting NBA center? It wasn't too long ago that Biedrens had averaged a double-double.

Lastly, can Azu and Morrow split time at small forward, and would this combination be productive?
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All Star
Posts: 1530
» Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:15 am
uptempo wrote:With Randolph, Wright, and the Rookie; all of whom are younger and more athletic than Lee; wouldn't the Warriors be making a horizontal move by acquiring Lee?

Yes, exactly! Lee is an awesome player but needs to be locked into the PF position (due to his size) and he isn't a good defender. He needs to be on a team with a stellar defensive center for his team to thrive. The Warriors don't have a stellar defensive center, and we have three young guys that can all play PF. Lee just doesn't fit with the Warriors PLUS he'll be expensive as hell.

uptempo wrote:What I would like to see is Riley putting together a balanced roster of complimentary players who all play defense, rebound, and play hard.

Yes again! Let's put together a young Celtics team. That would give us our best chance to win right now. We don't need a ton of great scorers when we have Curry at the point. Let Curry spread the wealth and let the offensive scheme be the main offensive weapon on the Warriors, not a specific individual player. You don't need Jordan to win a championship when you have a great crew of defenders who pass well and are led by a great floor general.

uptempo wrote:That being said, can the Curry/Ellis backcourt thrive and allow this team to compete? I like both players; however, shouldn't one be traded away for a bigger two-guard?

It can thrive imho but we would have to change our offensive scheme completely. Monta slows down the action too much. If we want an up tempo offense then Monta probably needs to go. Not entirely sure about this though. He did play well with Baron at PG. As for Monta on defense... he can be an awesome defender when he wants to, and his size doesn't seem to be much of an issue there. It's just a matter of getting him to play defense all the time. That would take the right coach. No way Nellie get's him to do that.

uptempo wrote:Also, are we assuming too much by believing that trading away Biedrens would help this team? Who else on the roster has the skills to be a starting NBA center? It wasn't too long ago that Biedrens had averaged a double-double.

Good question. Biedrins is kinda a mystery right now. Old Beans can be a solid center. Who knows what new Beans will be like? It's smarter to trade him just to eliminate the mystery imo.

uptempo wrote:Lastly, can Azu and Morrow split time at small forward, and would this combination be productive?

They probably could but I think they'd be much better splitting time at the SG position. This of course implies that we trade Monta. I think both Azu and Morrow are a bit undersized at the SF spot. Azu is stronger and more physical than Morrow so he can probably handle the SF spot better, but it sounds like he still isn't over his injury. I'd personally rather see us go with AR/Williams splitting time at the SF position.

Rookie
Posts: 42
» Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:18 am
I had to join the forum to respond to this thread. I just can't understand why any logical person would want to give up our best player (Montae) for another power forward. So now we would have 4 pf, 1 pg, a center on the trade block, no starting shooting guard, no starting small forward. Not to mention David Lee is a horrible defender, one of the worst in the NBA. Adding David Lee is not the answer, we have capable power forwards already. We need a small forward, or we need to play Randolph at small forward. I don't know why people want to drastically change this team around every year. We got good players right now, they just happened to all get injured last year. Give them a year to show what they got before you start trading them away. Our biggest problem has always been rebounding and defending, David Lee can definitely fix the rebounding part, but Ekpe can fix both. You guys see that 20 ppg and think Lee's the answer. He's not, without him and a bunch of d leaguer's we scored 112 a game, scoring ain't our problem. There's a lot of hate for Montae on this forum; but weather you like him or not, you have to admit he is a really good scorer. 25.5 ppg is hard to do on any team, that's why it rarely happens. With help D behind Ellis and Curry, they can play together and will thrive at doing it. We only need 3 scorers to score at will on teams, add defense and rebounding at our PF and C positions, we can compete. Either add a small forward who can score or give Randolph a chance to do it at SF, but giving up Montae for D. Lee is a big mistake.

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