Chum wrote:

No Longer StuckInSoCal wrote:I'm in the total middle of this debate. I think Monta is a solid player in the right lineup where he can slash and shoot, a secondary weapon that can covert more than 50% of his shots and help carry a team in the fourth. When he's the primary option and the entire offense is running through him/around him he plays like a poor man's Allen Iverson.

I'd love to see him on the Nuggets with Billups and Anthony, finding lanes and holes to fill as opposing defenses try to shut down Denver's no. 1 play maker.

As for the recent posts, I know from personal experience that attacking Monta is a great way to pick a fight with Warriorsstepup. We all have our guys.

I hope the Bean critics are wrong... because if they're not, we have less than I thought. Sure, Cousins could be a great NBA center... or he could not, or he could be and another team will take him with a top 3 pick. Outside of Cousins, we don't really have an obvious answer to replacing our young center.

I agree with all of this, but I'd rather see Monta on the Celtics with Rondo in the backcourt

I really wanted us to get that back court last year before the draft when there was talk of Rondo being traded. Imagine the fast breaks points

i just wish he turned the ball over less... i have no problem with him jackin up shots... i'd say him and curry are the top 2 scoring options...

and no one ever talks about this, and i know it's a bad time to bring it up, but damn! Monta DOES NOT finish like he used to... i remember the year before the moped accident, he was finishing everything in the paint... and i mean EVERYTHING! crazy and 1's, difficult layups, jumping off the wrong foot, up and unders... i mean literally... EVERYTHING... i don't know about anyone else, but i can definitely see the effect of the ankle injury...

can someone please hurry and agree with me so that i know im not making things up.

8th ave wrote:i just wish he turned the ball over less... i have no problem with him jackin up shots... i'd say him and curry are the top 2 scoring options...

and no one ever talks about this, and i know it's a bad time to bring it up, but damn! Monta DOES NOT finish like he used to... i remember the year before the moped accident, he was finishing everything in the paint... and i mean EVERYTHING! crazy and 1's, difficult layups, jumping off the wrong foot, up and unders... i mean literally... EVERYTHING... i don't know about anyone else, but i can definitely see the effect of the ankle injury...

can someone please hurry and agree with me so that i know im not making things up.

sorry bro, but I just can't jump on board with this monta isn't what he used to be bull...

facts:
1. SC / ME comparison (09/10 season) -
Monta Ellis FG% - .449
Stephen "everybody in the bay wants to **** my **** now but will hate me in 2 years" Curry - .462 (with ~8 less attempts per game mind you)

2. Monta Ellis has improved his 3pt % despite more attempts.
07-08 - 23.1% @ 0.1-0.6 Makes/Attempt
08-09 - 30.8% @ 0.3-1.0 Makes/Attempt
09-10 - 33.8% @ 1.2-3.6 Makes/Attempt

Keep in mind that All-star caliber players like: Kobe, Wade, B-Roy, Iguodala, Melo, LeBron, (K-Martin not really) all shot lower 3pt% through the regular season. Generally speaking, all of the SG's with higher 3pt% than ME, don't have a teaspoon of the all around offensive game Monta has. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... ing-guards

3. LEADER in Minutes per game @ a whopping 41.4... over LeBron's, Kobe's, Wades.... can you guess who? 28 of the 64 games (nearly 1/2) played he logged over 45+ minutes! Compare to Curry's 15 of 80 games played (~1/5)

4. Ellis was clearly gassed after the first half of the season (poss. in a push to make the all-star team... Cohan knows he's going to sell -> more $$$ w/ a genuine A-S on roster...)

-Monta FG% first 3 months - 45.8%
-Curry FG% first 3 months - 44.7%

-Monta FG% last 3 months - 42.7% (*after playing 24 games @ 45mins+ Nov-Jan)
-Curry FG% last 3 months - 46.6% (*after playing 8 games @ 45mins+ Nov-Jan)

5. the dude put in more than a couple tough baskets. I think fans have come to expect this from him which is why it doesn't seem all that amazing anymore. yes he is down slightly in overall FG% but I think that is more to due to more 3pA than inefficient slashing attempts
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4YkwelQrU[/youtube]

make sure all of you current Curry fans call me in three years so I can explain to you why we don't need to dump him for a new to-be-scape-goat

I seem to be in the minority of people here too who do not think Monta is the problem, especially this off season. I really think Monta just needs to accept that he is not the floor general of this team, and let Curry make his job easier. If Monta is asked to slash after Curry starts rotating the defense, he will be unstoppable. This will open up his mid range game as well. He can still get his assists that make him feel like Lebron too as we know he can make some decent passes in the lane. I really think all he needs to do is not bring the ball up and let Curry initiate the offense his efficiency and positive impact will both increase.

Now if Monta is willing to realize this are up to both him and Nelson. Nelson needs to realize this and call plays that play off team strengths like this. Monta needs to realize that he may be capable of scoring with some of the superstars in this league, but has unlike many of the has a VERY promising guard playing next to him who is better at initiating an offense. I think he has started to realize this and will start letting Curry run this team now that he realizes this young guy next to him put up rookie statlines that were in the company of such names as Oscar Robertson, Lebron James and some guy named Michael Jordan. And if he does buy into this he will find himself playing a part of some winning basketball.

If Monta refuses to do this, then I think we need to trade him next year at the trade deadline. This is the more likely scenario anyway since we are in the middle of a sale and Monta is our best scorer. So I would not expect him to be a part of any deal until we get a new owner who has his choice of GM.

I dont Hate Monta. I dont think Monta Sucks. I dont think Monta is a Cancer. I dont want to give Monta away. I do think he needs to be moved for a better complimentary player. If either he or Curry were 3 inches taller and much stronger, I would be all for the Curry / Monta backcourt, but since that is not the case, having 2 small guards is just too much of a defensive liability.

I don't know how much of a defensive liability it will be. Like many have said very few guards look good defensively in the NBA with the way the rules are designed. I don't think we will be able to get a player who puts up the offense they are going to give at the other end. Especially playing in Nelly's system where he won't be held accountable to a role like defensive stopper.

Also Monta has shown himself to be a very capable defender when motivated. Last year he did a great job on some of the premiere guards in the game like Kobe and Brandon Roy. When he knew he was facing a big time scorer who he'd have to limit, Monta geared down and showed he is a capable defender. When he played scrubs he didn't do quite as well, but I attribute that much more to his minutes played and the load he often carried out there each game.

With a healthy line up and a revised role on offense I can see Monta being much more consistent defender. I remember one of the games when he was in foul trouble early so he got a lot of rest. Come the 4th quarter Monta made some key defensive plays including a steal that ended up winning the game. We need a coach who puts him in his best role on offense to maximize his efforts and conserve his energy and also motivates him to be great on both ends of the floor.

Dr. Spaceman wrote:I don't know how much of a defensive liability it will be. Like many have said very few guards look good defensively in the NBA with the way the rules are designed. I don't think we will be able to get a player who puts up the offense they are going to give at the other end. Especially playing in Nelly's system where he won't be held accountable to a role like defensive stopper.

Also Monta has shown himself to be a very capable defender when motivated. Last year he did a great job on some of the premiere guards in the game like Kobe and Brandon Roy. When he knew he was facing a big time scorer who he'd have to limit, Monta geared down and showed he is a capable defender. When he played scrubs he didn't do quite as well, but I attribute that much more to his minutes played and the load he often carried out there each game.

With a healthy line up and a revised role on offense I can see Monta being much more consistent defender. I remember one of the games when he was in foul trouble early so he got a lot of rest. Come the 4th quarter Monta made some key defensive plays including a steal that ended up winning the game. We need a coach who puts him in his best role on offense to maximize his efforts and conserve his energy and also motivates him to be great on both ends of the floor.

I agree with you that Monta looked good on D at times, but just dont see this team being succesful with a PG, tweener, tweener, tweener, C lineup. The Warriors need some players that are the right size to play their positions. I realize small guys can play, but until we have a team that can match up size-wise against the league, we are going to continue to get beat down on the glass and on D. If Monta would come off the bench, he would be spectacular, but I dont think he will and I dont even know if that would be fair to ask of him.

"Always" Next wrote:

Dr. Spaceman wrote:I don't know how much of a defensive liability it will be. Like many have said very few guards look good defensively in the NBA with the way the rules are designed. I don't think we will be able to get a player who puts up the offense they are going to give at the other end. Especially playing in Nelly's system where he won't be held accountable to a role like defensive stopper.

Also Monta has shown himself to be a very capable defender when motivated. Last year he did a great job on some of the premiere guards in the game like Kobe and Brandon Roy. When he knew he was facing a big time scorer who he'd have to limit, Monta geared down and showed he is a capable defender. When he played scrubs he didn't do quite as well, but I attribute that much more to his minutes played and the load he often carried out there each game.

With a healthy line up and a revised role on offense I can see Monta being much more consistent defender. I remember one of the games when he was in foul trouble early so he got a lot of rest. Come the 4th quarter Monta made some key defensive plays including a steal that ended up winning the game. We need a coach who puts him in his best role on offense to maximize his efforts and conserve his energy and also motivates him to be great on both ends of the floor.

I agree with you that Monta looked good on D at times, but just dont see this team being succesful with a PG, tweener, tweener, tweener, C lineup. The Warriors need some players that are the right size to play their positions. I realize small guys can play, but until we have a team that can match up size-wise against the league, we are going to continue to get beat down on the glass and on D. If Monta would come off the bench, he would be spectacular, but I dont think he will and I dont even know if that would be fair to ask of him.

I agree with you whole heartedly. Which is why I think a lineup with a legit center ( which Ronny and Beans are capable of playing the role of when healthy), A PF with some size and bulk (why I am more fond of Love than Randolph or maybe try to work out a trade for a player like Bass or Millsap to compliment with AR) and a SF who can defend, has length and is not a liability on offense (Maybe draft a player like Pondexter in the second). I think a lineup like that could improve defense enough that we can still outscore most opponents. Basically with a versatile lineup of role players (rather than 10 players with similar strengths) we can put out lineups to play defense when we need with these two, get stops and continue to score. I think we attempt to form a more balanced team before around Monta and Curry before we just say this back court won't work based on one season where it played with the NBA D - League.

There are some may elements that people just forget to take note of concerning the Monta issue, now people are turning that same attitude towards AR, talk about loyalty.

The simple fact is Nellie never established any sort of roles, his confused self should have established Curry as the PG, and not sway back and forth on that, we don't know what goes on in practice and only the coach would.
Westbrook, Rondo, where never heralded pg coming out of college, but experience made them today.

Too many elements and mis-direction on this team, coming he of an injury I say he did only what the coach wanted.

TMC wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:

TMC wrote:Something about this thread is just WRONG!!!!






(Oh, yeah... it's Monta)

Or just maybe YOU, you clearly don't know nothing about team basketball and structure and delegating of roles (Fans can be so blind).

Then they bitch and moan about the organization, the coach, and having 5 guards out at the floor. The life of a confused, frustrated, warriors fan. Tissue please.

Start by watching a few games and check what happens when Monta is not playing, how the team starts playing better bball and, all of a sudden, there's ball movement.

Oh, and I haven't missed the irony of the "you clearly don't know nothing about team basketball and structure and delegating of roles" sentence applied to Monta...

Delegating of roles is about not overplaying his players.

Better bball with a bunch of nobodies, majority of NBA bench players could make the starting line-up, thats reality.

Face it this team sucks, they need to add players not just horrible expires either.

warriorsstepup wrote:There are some may elements that people just forget to take note of concerning the Monta issue, now people are turning that same attitude towards AR, talk about loyalty.

The simple fact is Nellie never established any sort of roles, his confused self should have established Curry as the PG, and not sway back and forth on that, we don't know what goes on in practice and only the coach would.
Westbrook, Rondo, where never heralded pg coming out of college, but experience made them today.

Too many elements and mis-direction on this team, coming he of an injury I say he did only what the coach wanted.

Nellie gave Monta the team this year, despite Curry showing up as the man at PG.

Please don't talk about not being loyal because we want Monta traded. I've been a Warriors fan for decades now. You can't follow a team this bad for decades and not be loyal.

It's been said soooooo many times already, but the opinion is that Monta just doesn't seem to fit with the team so he should be traded. It's nothing against Monta on a personal level.

Chum wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:There are some may elements that people just forget to take note of concerning the Monta issue, now people are turning that same attitude towards AR, talk about loyalty.

The simple fact is Nellie never established any sort of roles, his confused self should have established Curry as the PG, and not sway back and forth on that, we don't know what goes on in practice and only the coach would.
Westbrook, Rondo, where never heralded pg coming out of college, but experience made them today.

Too many elements and mis-direction on this team, coming he of an injury I say he did only what the coach wanted.

Nellie gave Monta the team this year, despite Curry showing up as the man at PG.

Please don't talk about not being loyal because we want Monta traded. I've been a Warriors fan for decades now. You can't follow a team this bad for decades and not be loyal.

It's been said soooooo many times already, but the opinion is that Monta just doesn't seem to fit with the team so he should be traded. It's nothing against Monta on a personal level.

Loyal in relation not just to Monta but the sudden trade AR channanage that has been brought up, the most important is a chance for growth as a team, the loyalty of a team to its players it does matter, players pay attention to that and how players are treated, and am certain the warriors are on the lower pole of that.

Nellie is the one that does not fit, let him go and see the miracles, like walking on pudding.

warriorsstepup wrote:

Chum wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:There are some may elements that people just forget to take note of concerning the Monta issue, now people are turning that same attitude towards AR, talk about loyalty.

The simple fact is Nellie never established any sort of roles, his confused self should have established Curry as the PG, and not sway back and forth on that, we don't know what goes on in practice and only the coach would.
Westbrook, Rondo, where never heralded pg coming out of college, but experience made them today.

Too many elements and mis-direction on this team, coming he of an injury I say he did only what the coach wanted.

Nellie gave Monta the team this year, despite Curry showing up as the man at PG.

Please don't talk about not being loyal because we want Monta traded. I've been a Warriors fan for decades now. You can't follow a team this bad for decades and not be loyal.

It's been said soooooo many times already, but the opinion is that Monta just doesn't seem to fit with the team so he should be traded. It's nothing against Monta on a personal level.

Loyal in relation not just to Monta but the sudden trade AR channanage that has been brought up, the most important is a chance for growth as a team, the loyalty of a team to its players it does matter, players pay attention to that and how players are treated, and am certain the warriors are on the lower pole of that.

Nellie is the one that does not fit, let him go and see the miracles, like walking on pudding.

I really dont get your whole loyalty to a player over the team thing. Its not like anybody wants to ship AR off for nothing. He has been discussed in a trade involving Kevin Love. A guy that can really help this team. He is a big body, a rebounder and he knows how to play the game. I really dont think anybody on the board at this point wants player movement just for the sake of player movement. The team needs to make some moves in order to improve. Should we just sit pat forever and not even draft any rookies, because those rookies coming in may one day take a players position that is already on the team and we need to stay loyal to that player.

"Always" Next wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:

Chum wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:There are some may elements that people just forget to take note of concerning the Monta issue, now people are turning that same attitude towards AR, talk about loyalty.

The simple fact is Nellie never established any sort of roles, his confused self should have established Curry as the PG, and not sway back and forth on that, we don't know what goes on in practice and only the coach would.
Westbrook, Rondo, where never heralded pg coming out of college, but experience made them today.

Too many elements and mis-direction on this team, coming he of an injury I say he did only what the coach wanted.

Nellie gave Monta the team this year, despite Curry showing up as the man at PG.

Please don't talk about not being loyal because we want Monta traded. I've been a Warriors fan for decades now. You can't follow a team this bad for decades and not be loyal.

It's been said soooooo many times already, but the opinion is that Monta just doesn't seem to fit with the team so he should be traded. It's nothing against Monta on a personal level.

Loyal in relation not just to Monta but the sudden trade AR channanage that has been brought up, the most important is a chance for growth as a team, the loyalty of a team to its players it does matter, players pay attention to that and how players are treated, and am certain the warriors are on the lower pole of that.

Nellie is the one that does not fit, let him go and see the miracles, like walking on pudding.

I really dont get your whole loyalty to a player over the team thing. Its not like anybody wants to ship AR off for nothing. He has been discussed in a trade involving Kevin Love. A guy that can really help this team. He is a big body, a rebounder and he knows how to play the game. I really dont think anybody on the board at this point wants player movement just for the sake of player movement. The team needs to make some moves in order to improve. Should we just sit pat forever and not even draft any rookies, because those rookies coming in may one day take a players position that is already on the team and we need to stay loyal to that player.

Very well said Always. I like every Warrior currently on the roster (except Vlad) and I'll be sorry to see any of them go, but someone (probably several someones) need to go for the team to get better.

As for the Nellie issue, most here would probably agree with you, but I think he's here for one more season, so it could be a moot point. He seemed all grandpa-like at the end of the season, so hopefully he'll just try to find the talent in the young guys and retire gracefully when the season is over.

With new coaching, change of ownership, new players, its good to see Monta excelling. Although its early in the season I think it continues. Man trying to defend Monta last year was almost impossible, but things make sense now. Go Monta go Warriors.