get real AR is not going to be a star

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:34 pm
I keep hearing people say oh my god hes going to be the next bosh/garnett/odom type of player which is just flat out ridiculous to say. He doesn't even have one bit of an offensive identity, a move he can go to. he can't even play defense down there without getting pushed around. (see la game where odom shoved him all the way back to the 3point line from inside the key). hes more of a liability than a benefit to us. he can't go up against the bigs at all. if he was going to be a star we would have seen flashes and I have seen none. they said he gained 20 lbs last summer and hes still scrawny as hell. same situation with brandon wright. these two won't be stars. book it.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:17 am
lol, that's all I have at the moment.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:26 am
BW hook is unplayable.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:46 am
I think both have a lot of potential. The likelihood of either becoming a superstar is low, but I think it would be foolish to write them off. Besides, you can say that about any young player... 30 first round picks every year, and at most 3-4 will become stars, and maybe one will become a bona fide superstar.

I've always been high on Wright. He's had some good nights, and his length and patience are really helpful assets. I also feel that the team tends to perform better with him on the court; he does his job and he is efficient. He has a solid offensive game, and is decent in the post. If he could stay healthy long enough to develop, and maybe fill out his frame a bit, he could become a solid 6th man or even a starting PF.

As for Randolph, the dude has more potential than anyone in the league. 2nd youngest player, with one year of experience already. 7 feet tall, freakishly athletic, intense player. He's got decent handles, especially for his size, and his mid-range game seemed to be coming along before the injury. If he can just improve his fundamentals, get some more experience, and extend his shooting range, he will have the tools to revolutionize the SF position and become an All Star. Whether that happens relies as much on his coaches as it does on him. He has to work for it, and the coaches have to make sure he develops properly.

Personally I don't think either will flourish in the current system we have, but if Ellison buys the team and cleans house, they both have opportunities to become legit NBA players, and be key in turning this franchise around.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:25 am
biggumt wrote:I keep hearing people say oh my god hes going to be the next bosh/garnett/odom type of player which is just flat out ridiculous to say. He doesn't even have one bit of an offensive identity, a move he can go to. he can't even play defense down there without getting pushed around. (see la game where odom shoved him all the way back to the 3point line from inside the key). hes more of a liability than a benefit to us. he can't go up against the bigs at all. if he was going to be a star we would have seen flashes and I have seen none. they said he gained 20 lbs last summer and hes still scrawny as hell. same situation with brandon wright. these two won't be stars. book it.
I've felt similar since day one, and never understood the fan fair on this board that is synonymous with AR... He is a liability, yes he could improve and you can argue he hasn't got enough playing time, but by now we (as fans) shouldn't have to expect him getting 5 fouls 4 TOs in 15 min... He has tremendous potential given his height (not size for the fan boys) and athleticism, but I think BW is more polished and if he could manage a healthy season, he would contribute much more.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:44 am
It depends on who's going to get minutes. Right now I can see Nelson using this rotation for next year. Tolliver > Randolph = Wright at 4 or 5 spot.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:03 am
Going to agree with the OP, JREED23 and somewhat with D4rk One...

AR is not and will not be a good power forward. He'll never have the bulk to hold his ground in the paint, and his scoring ability comes from driving the open lane.

I somewhat agree with D4rk One because I believe he has the potential to be a top notch SF, not from an offensive aspect, but from a defensive aspect. He's still listed at 6'10" but he looks more like 6'11" or 7'0". He has a huge wingspan. He's much faster and more agile than most players his size.

IMHO the Warriors need two dedicated defenders. One in the paint and one on the wing. I'm hoping AR can become that dedicated defender on the wing.

If AR can't cut is at SF he is a liability to this team. He isn't PF material. Here comes the part where I probably get slammed...

Tolliver is the best PF on the Warriors. I'm not saying he is a better athelete than AR, but I do think he is a better athelete than Wright, and he is a better defender than either AR or Wright. I'm also not saying Tolliver is an ideal starter, he isn't, but he's the best player the Warriors have at the PF position.

The PF spot is really the weakest position on the team. We are stronger at the center spot with Beans/Turiaf/Hunter. Those three guys are all decent centers, but lack the footspeed to play PF.

We need to try AR at the SF position and we need to trade, or draft, a top notch PF.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:02 pm
OMG! I can't believe my eyes! Tell me this is just a bad dream!!
To put it the most simply-If Randolph was playing 36 minutes a game, about 5.5 less than Monta currently plays, Randolph would we be a 19 PPG and 10 RPG. player. So as a 19/10 man that would put Randolph at 20 years old in the company of 5 other PF's in the NBA. Bosh, Boozer,Z.Randolph, P. Gasol and A.Jefferson. If we were to widen that to all NBA PF's and Centers, that would also include, D. Howard, Duncan and D. Lee. So Randolph is in an elite company of the top 8 Centers and PF's. This isn't some time in the future where we are projecting him to be a "star" WhateverTF that means! This is actually happening right now.
Now you could say, that you don't think Randolph could produce at that high a rate if he played fulltime. ---OK, but how much do you realistically think his numbers would go down, what maybe 17-9???16-8????

Let me put it another way. If you had a woman who was performing for you at 19 points a game, and rebounding YOU at 10 rebounds a game. What would you do??
A) Dump the Bitch!, She's too young, besides she doesn't do what I want her to do. ( Not that I've ever told her what I want her to do.) Anyway, get rid of her, she's too much work! B) Hold on to her. God! Could she be the one? I WAS expecting a woman with maybe 30 PPG and 15 rebounds, but maybe I could settle for this.

Probably the most intelligent case anyone could make for trading Randolph is that they don't want to trade Curry, and we'd have to trade Randolph to just get rid of Maggette's or AB's big contracts. That would be a good point. But I don't even put much faith in that, Maggette is having a career year for Maggette. And I would estimate there are at least 20 contracts in the NBA worse than Maggettes, when narrow down the number of those 20 who would accept playing as a 6th man, they are even more. ( Not that we shouldn't try to shed Magg's contract. )


I think AR alongside a realized Cousins, ( though that maybe a few years away ) would be a good combination, or at the very least put us in the middle of the pack in rebounding, instead of dead last, which is what we presently are. Randolph playing alongside a rejuvenated Beidrins could make us perfectly adequate.

One question that is intriguing, could there be a 19/10 PF in the NBA who couldn't even make it into the first string of an NBA team, and would be eventually minimized and traded??? Probably only one- and that would be with a team led by Don Nelson.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:44 pm
War Years wrote:
OMG! I can't believe my eyes! Tell me this is just a bad dream!!
To put it the most simply-If Randolph was playing 36 minutes a game, about 5.5 less than Monta currently plays, Randolph would we be a 19 PPG and 10 RPG. player. So as a 19/10 man that would put Randolph at 20 years old in the company of 5 other PF's in the NBA. Bosh, Boozer,Z.Randolph, P. Gasol and A.Jefferson. If we were to widen that to all NBA PF's and Centers, that would also include, D. Howard, Duncan and D. Lee. So Randolph is in an elite company of the top 8 Centers and PF's. This isn't some time in the future where we are projecting him to be a "star" WhateverTF that means! This is actually happening right now.
Now you could say, that you don't think Randolph could produce at that high a rate if he played fulltime. ---OK, but how much do you realistically think his numbers would go down, what maybe 17-9???16-8????

Let me put it another way. If you had a woman who was performing for you at 19 points a game, and rebounding YOU at 10 rebounds a game. What would you do??
A) Dump the Bitch!, She's too young, besides she doesn't do what I want her to do. ( Not that I've ever told her what I want her to do.) Anyway, get rid of her, she's too much work! B) Hold on to her. God! Could she be the one? I WAS expecting a woman with maybe 30 PPG and 15 rebounds, but maybe I could settle for this.

Probably the most intelligent case anyone could make for trading Randolph is that they don't want to trade Curry, and we'd have to trade Randolph to just get rid of Maggette's or AB's big contracts. That would be a good point. But I don't even put much faith in that, Maggette is having a career year for Maggette. And I would estimate there are at least 20 contracts in the NBA worse than Maggettes, when narrow down the number of those 20 who would accept playing as a 6th man, they are even more. ( Not that we shouldn't try to shed Magg's contract. )


I think AR alongside a realized Cousins, ( though that maybe a few years away ) would be a good combination, or at the very least put us in the middle of the pack in rebounding, instead of dead last, which is what we presently are. Randolph playing alongside a rejuvenated Beidrins could make us perfectly adequate.

One question that is intriguing, could there be a 19/10 PF in the NBA who couldn't even make it into the first string of an NBA team, and would be eventually minimized and traded??? Probably only one- and that would be with a team led by Don Nelson.
Yeah but how many TOs and fouls would he have in that 36 min... He would foul out at about the 17 min mark... I'm not saying he can't contribute and that he wont become an excellent player, but I think he needs to ride the bench a little longer - notice how I didn't say more but longer, meaning he shouldn't be getting significant playing time (35 min) for at least another year but he should be seeing more action when he is healthy.

I think that BW could come in and be a solid contributor/starter while not hurting us too much in the foul/TO game...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:41 pm
JREED23 wrote:Yeah but how many TOs and fouls would he have in that 36 min.


2.4 on average. Less than Monta, Curry, and Maggette.

In fact his turnvover % per 100 play is 11.7% which 10 players that have played for this team this year are worse:

Turiaf: 19.4%
Moore: 18.1%
Biedrins: 17.7%
Curry: 16.9%
Karl: 14.8%
Jackson: 14.8%
Radmonovich: 14.0 %
Ellis: 14.0 %
Maggette: 12.9%
Martin: 11.8 %

then Randolph: 11.7 %

Sometime I think people just make stuff up with Randolph.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:25 pm
bada wrote:
JREED23 wrote:Yeah but how many TOs and fouls would he have in that 36 min.


2.4 on average. Less than Monta, Curry, and Maggette.

In fact his turnvover % per 100 play is 11.7% which 10 players that have played for this team this year are worse:

Turiaf: 19.4%
Moore: 18.1%
Biedrins: 17.7%
Curry: 16.9%
Karl: 14.8%
Jackson: 14.8%
Radmonovich: 14.0 %
Ellis: 14.0 %
Maggette: 12.9%
Martin: 11.8 %

then Randolph: 11.7 %

Sometime I think people just make stuff up with Randolph.



thank you Bada for effectively shutting everyone up.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:40 pm
rizon wrote:
bada wrote:
JREED23 wrote:Yeah but how many TOs and fouls would he have in that 36 min.


2.4 on average. Less than Monta, Curry, and Maggette.

In fact his turnvover % per 100 play is 11.7% which 10 players that have played for this team this year are worse:

Turiaf: 19.4%
Moore: 18.1%
Biedrins: 17.7%
Curry: 16.9%
Karl: 14.8%
Jackson: 14.8%
Radmonovich: 14.0 %
Ellis: 14.0 %
Maggette: 12.9%
Martin: 11.8 %

then Randolph: 11.7 %

Sometime I think people just make stuff up with Randolph.



thank you Bada for effectively shutting everyone up.


Um, you can't shut me up :)

AR is too thin and weak to hold his own in the paint. He's not cut out for the PF position. I still say move him to SF and see how he does. Put beef in the paint, not string beans.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:12 pm
Chum wrote:
rizon wrote:
bada wrote:
JREED23 wrote:Yeah but how many TOs and fouls would he have in that 36 min.


2.4 on average. Less than Monta, Curry, and Maggette.

In fact his turnvover % per 100 play is 11.7% which 10 players that have played for this team this year are worse:

Turiaf: 19.4%
Moore: 18.1%
Biedrins: 17.7%
Curry: 16.9%
Karl: 14.8%
Jackson: 14.8%
Radmonovich: 14.0 %
Ellis: 14.0 %
Maggette: 12.9%
Martin: 11.8 %

then Randolph: 11.7 %

Sometime I think people just make stuff up with Randolph.



thank you Bada for effectively shutting everyone up.


Um, you can't shut me up :)

AR is too thin and weak to hold his own in the paint. He's not cut out for the PF position. I still say move him to SF and see how he does. Put beef in the paint, not string beans.


Kevin Garnett managed pretty well despite a lean frame....he was just as thin if not thinner than Randolph when he came into the league. Same with Bosh. Shawn Marion was at the top of the leaderboard in rebounds for years despite carrying a lithe frame and a few less inches than most "traditional" 4's. Sometimes your stringbeans can be just as tough as the "beef". When you have a player who is all of TWENTY years old...who is 6'10" with a ridiculous wingspan and has a shown a knack (however inconsistent) for rebounding the ball and blocking shots....there is no way you give up on them. Look what Andray Blatche is doing with Washington these days. Prior to this year, he'd shown a fraction of the intensity, passion and activity Randolph has displayed.

If you take this kid and move him to the SF spot, you sure will create a mismatch......for the other team. AR is not a finesse player...he just thinks he is. But he doesn't have those skills yet. The ones he does have, when he chooses to display them; blocking shots, rebounding balls nobody else can get to, and cleaning up the misses of his teammates with putbacks and dunks....these are all hallmark traits of a power forward. If we didn't have Nelson meddling with Randolph's natural development, and instead getting him to develop the abilities he has instead of trying to shoot 20 foot jumpers, I think we'd have seen a more composed, focused player. As it is, he is still TWENTY years old and it's far far too soon to make ANY kind of snap judgments about what kind of player he is or will become.[/b]
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:19 pm
War Years wrote:
OMG! I can't believe my eyes! Tell me this is just a bad dream!!
To put it the most simply-If Randolph was playing 36 minutes a game, about 5.5 less than Monta currently plays, Randolph would we be a 19 PPG and 10 RPG. player. So as a 19/10 man that would put Randolph at 20 years old in the company of 5 other PF's in the NBA. Bosh, Boozer,Z.Randolph, P. Gasol and A.Jefferson. If we were to widen that to all NBA PF's and Centers, that would also include, D. Howard, Duncan and D. Lee. So Randolph is in an elite company of the top 8 Centers and PF's. This isn't some time in the future where we are projecting him to be a "star" WhateverTF that means! This is actually happening right now.
Now you could say, that you don't think Randolph could produce at that high a rate if he played fulltime. ---OK, but how much do you realistically think his numbers would go down, what maybe 17-9???16-8????

Let me put it another way. If you had a woman who was performing for you at 19 points a game, and rebounding YOU at 10 rebounds a game. What would you do??
A) Dump the Bitch!, She's too young, besides she doesn't do what I want her to do. ( Not that I've ever told her what I want her to do.) Anyway, get rid of her, she's too much work! B) Hold on to her. God! Could she be the one? I WAS expecting a woman with maybe 30 PPG and 15 rebounds, but maybe I could settle for this.

Probably the most intelligent case anyone could make for trading Randolph is that they don't want to trade Curry, and we'd have to trade Randolph to just get rid of Maggette's or AB's big contracts. That would be a good point. But I don't even put much faith in that, Maggette is having a career year for Maggette. And I would estimate there are at least 20 contracts in the NBA worse than Maggettes, when narrow down the number of those 20 who would accept playing as a 6th man, they are even more. ( Not that we shouldn't try to shed Magg's contract. )


I think AR alongside a realized Cousins, ( though that maybe a few years away ) would be a good combination, or at the very least put us in the middle of the pack in rebounding, instead of dead last, which is what we presently are. Randolph playing alongside a rejuvenated Beidrins could make us perfectly adequate.

One question that is intriguing, could there be a 19/10 PF in the NBA who couldn't even make it into the first string of an NBA team, and would be eventually minimized and traded??? Probably only one- and that would be with a team led by Don Nelson.


I'm having a hard time following this post but I'll single out the players you are comparing AR to...

Chris Bosh: 6-10, 230lbs, PF
- Soft and overrated. Makes his money on short jumpers. A Dirk Nowitzki type player. He needs a tough inside presence to help him out in the paint. Otherwise no ring for this guy's team.

Carlos Boozer: 6-9, 266lbs, PF
- Tough tough tough. This guy could be part of a championship puzzle. He controls the paint.

Zach Randolph: 6-9, 260lbs, PF
- Tough in the paint. Can back anyone down. Explosive.

Pau Gasol: 7-0, 250lbs., PF/C
- Can shot over anyone. Oversized at the PF position. An elite bigman who plays a skill game but can also play tough in the paint when needed. Has beefy Bynum to help out in the paint.

Al Jefferson: 6-10, 265lbs, PF/C
- BEEF! This guy is big and he plays big. He uses his size to gain position and he keeps position. Can score, block and rebound. Controls the paint. Not as tough overall as Boozer but a better scorer.

Dwight Howard: 6-11, 265lbs, C
- Best defender in the league. Dominates the paint with size, strength and quickness. Isn't a great scorer and doesn't need to be. Can, and does, win games with defensive domination.

Tim Duncan: 6-11, 260lbs, PF/C
- Hall of Fame! One of the best bigs ever. Domintes with both skill and size.

David Lee: 6-9, 250lbs, C
- Don't know too much about him other than that he is young and rebounds the hell out of the ball.

Anthony Randolph: 6-10, 210lbs, PF
- Notice anything interesting about this guy? He weighs 20lbs less than the next lightest guy listed here, and that guy isn't that great in the paint.

Height and weight certainly isn't the be-all-end-all of the NBA big man, but it is an important factor. AR is about 40 to 50 pounds too light for the PF position, and while Al Jefferson carries a gut around with him, the 40 or 50 pounds those other guys have on AR is muscle, NBA big man muscle. These guys can all hip check AR across the court.

Championship teams have big beefy guys that "control" the paint. AR isn't capable of doing that.

This doesn't mean AR can't be a star. We've all seen the kid seemingly fly across half the court and dunk. We've all been wowed by his athletic ability. I think he is extremely talented. His talent just doesn't belong in the paint. IMHO it belongs at the small forward spot where he can use that amazing athletic talent, and length, to shut down other wings.

If Nellie ends up playing him at the PF position next season I hope I'm wrong, because I do want to see AR remain with the Warriors.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:50 am
rizon wrote:
bada wrote:
JREED23 wrote:Yeah but how many TOs and fouls would he have in that 36 min.


2.4 on average. Less than Monta, Curry, and Maggette.

In fact his turnvover % per 100 play is 11.7% which 10 players that have played for this team this year are worse:

Turiaf: 19.4%
Moore: 18.1%
Biedrins: 17.7%
Curry: 16.9%
Karl: 14.8%
Jackson: 14.8%
Radmonovich: 14.0 %
Ellis: 14.0 %
Maggette: 12.9%
Martin: 11.8 %

then Randolph: 11.7 %

Sometime I think people just make stuff up with Randolph.



thank you Bada for effectively shutting everyone up.



Yea, people need to do a little research before they say a player is no good. With a proper coach and playing time AR could well be a top 10 PF, closing in on top 5 almost right away
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