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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:07 pm
War Years wrote:I appreciate some of you guys draft insights as I don't have much time to watch College games and rely on clips and checking out written reports.From what I can decipher:

!) If we get John Wall, I would probably be in favor of keeping him as he is the most touted prospect since Le Bron. That would facilitate a trade of Curry, as much as I hate that idea. In that case it would be great if Curry continues his improvement as he will be a more tradable commodity. The problem is in my mind, what if he continues to improve TOO much? While I've been a big defender of Curry on this board, I've expected this improvement , but is this the improvement of a PG? True he seems to have all the prerequisite skills of court vision , good passing when he decides to pass 2 handed and being one step ahead of competitors with clever deceptive abilities. I almost certain he will blossom into a PG. But it's not absolutely certain yet how good a PG he'll be IMO. Could he actually be better than Wall?

2) If we draft Evan Turner, it might end up being just as good as Wall. I say then we trade Monta for a good front court player.

3) If we draft Cousins, then Riley will have a good excuse to get rid of Randolph, which they really seem intent on doing anyway. But what if they didn't trade Randolph? Imagine those 2 head cases dueling it out at the #4 position? I think at some point the Coach would have to make them put on the gloves. AR's got the reach but is way out of Cousin's weight class. Whew!
AR's insecure, but Cousins looks and acts downright mean. He might end up giving Nelly a heart attack! ( But hopefully Nelly will be spared because he won't be here. ) I can see that many would see Cousins a good counterbalance to Biedrins who has, after all been compared to a boy scout on this board. Kind of a good cop, bad cop kind of thing.

4)If we draft Wesley Johnson, I would say trade Monta for a front court player. You have to keep in mind that our 2 biggest weaknesses summed up in 2 words are rebounding and defense. I am enthused to hear that W.Johnson is an excellent defender, because if we traded to get A. Jefferson,we would get a good rebounder but I can assure you he is shitty defender! I'd much sooner trade Biedrins and even Morrow, for Kevin Love and an expirer like Brian Cardinal or Mark Blount, as I think Love is a future NBA all star center. He's young and old school and would fit in with AR or Cousins. Minnesota has said that any player is potentially on the table but I do think they are much more interested in dealing Jefferson.



Good points and nice analysis.

To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders. His season has been insecure with his injury from last season and his team being very insecure in what moves they will make.

I'd rather trade AB and BW for AJefferson, that'd be a real steal in my opinion, as AB is not going to get better and really is manhandled now by opposition bigs. BW is just a bust as such and won't be used here in his career. AJefferson is now a Center most of the time and he would replace AB immensely. He is a great scorer, rebounder and defender, a real comparison to superstar Dwight Howard, just with proper moves in the post. Their team situation is far different, unfortunately for AJeff. With a PG like Paul, even Curry for that matter, AJefferson would flourish even more.

If Monta had to be trade for AJefferson, I'd do that and be happy, but really reckon the TWolves would want and really need another big to pair with Love and replace AJefferson, otherwise the get real weak in their bigs real quick. Therefore, you can trade Monta for something else and that something else has to be either a star PG or SG, depending on whether Curry is to be given the chance of being the PG or not. If he is, Monta traded for a SG.

There are options and gettable stars right now and will be in the offseason, it's just making the moves.

Paul and AJefferson, my targets. Curry, Monta and AB, my tradeable players to get the players needed
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:20 pm
bada wrote:Still lots of college hoops left but here is my take on the players you mentioned.

Wall - Obviously a GREAT player. Probably a more athletic Derick Rose. I am not completely convinced he is a once a decade type but certainly has the raw talent to be that. If forced to choose between him and Curry to build around, it would be Wall. But when you factor in the fact that what Wall could bring the motherlode back in a trade, I think perhaps what is gained in return makes up for the gap between the players. After all, we need more than just one guy.

Turner - Big fan of his as a player. Not a big fan for THIS team. Like I said in a previous post, while he is decent off the ball, he SHINES with the ball and initiating offense as a point-forward type. We have seen that Curry and the team is at its best when Curry is initiating.

Cousins - I like the kid alot. SIZE SIZE SIZE!!! Here is the beef right here. I like his offensive game a lot considering how young he is. Seems a bit lazy on the defensive side and does not dominate on that side of the ball like you would expect with his size and strentgh advantage. Would prefer to move Monta for an established post presence but that probably wont be able to happen, so would be a good pick (with the exception being Nellie would probably hate him).

Johnson - My favorite pick of the bunch assuming we can acquire a post player somewhere else. Yes, I think he will be a very good defender capable of defending multiple positions. Team man to man concepts are tough to read being 'Cuse almost exclusively plays Zone. Explosive athlete and has a really smooth stroke and has great size for his position. Prototype of what a SF in the NBA should look like. NBA ready body... mostly because he is already 22, but I like that... we have enough young projects. What I love about him is that he is SO unselfish and plays a great team concept. He NEVER forces anything... he looks to quickly attack... if he does not have the advantage, he will quickly get rid of the ball. You will never see him styfiling the offense by holding on to the ball. As you can tell, I really like this kid... oh, and a VERY good rebounder. Can see him putting up rebounding numbers like S. Marion did in his prime.



Thanks for the analysis.

If we got the #1 pick, you get Wall, plain and somple. You then trade him and get alot of talent back, be it in one player or two. The hype around Wall means you get him just to get your hands on other players. You can pick him and then trade him for one of the other draft picks, any of the ones you mentioned and get either another player or two or at least two future 1st round draft picks. You pick Wall if you get the #1 pick in this upcoming draft.

WJohnson sure seems nice, though I haven't seen him at all, just going by what you guys say about him. I do think he'd be better either as a backup, like a 6th man or the starting SF (though Chum did say that he could be a SG) only when surrounded by very good talent, like if the team got AJefferson and another star. An allround player that can pretty much do it all, especially defend, is a need and always an asset.

The team gets the #1 pick, you make moves using the other players first I think, like the mentioned trade of aB and another player, like BW, for aJefferson and possibly getting Paul for Monta and someone else. Then, the starting five is probably already set, but you can trade Wall either for another lottery pick plus future 1st rounders, or trade him for an established star, I'm thinking a star guard opposite whatever other guard still remains. If it's Curry or Paul with no Monta, then a star SG, if no PG and Monta remains, a star PG, yes, I think NO would then trade Paul for Wall, maybe even straight up, if not, then for Wall and filler, like Maggette, needed to makeup the salary ofcourse
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:42 am
Of course you take Wall. I am NOT suggesting if we get the 1st pick, we take Wesley Johnson. But with Curry in place, the possibility of trading the rights to Wall for the rights to Johnson plus 3 1st round picks (2012, 2014, 2016) is very intriguing.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:51 am
bada wrote:Of course you take Wall. I am NOT suggesting if we get the 1st pick, we take Wesley Johnson. But with Curry in place, the possibility of trading the rights to Wall for the rights to Johnson plus 3 1st round picks (2012, 2014, 2016) is very intriguing.


Let's win the lottery first, guys. With our history, I wouldn't be surprised if, somehow, we end up with the 5th pick.


But, in case the unfathomable happens and we win the lottery, Wall is the pick. I'd explore trades, but it would take a really BIG bounty to make me trade him.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:32 am
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:17 pm
bada wrote:Of course you take Wall. I am NOT suggesting if we get the 1st pick, we take Wesley Johnson. But with Curry in place, the possibility of trading the rights to Wall for the rights to Johnson plus 3 1st round picks (2012, 2014, 2016) is very intriguing.



I'd rather trade Wall for a star and one or two other established player. Future 1st rounders aren't sure things. Wall can get you alot, he is that hyped
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:18 pm
War Years wrote:
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.



We all see things differently, but what I've seen with AJefferson he is a very good defender. He is having a down year, but he has been real good in almost all facets, really all big man facets for the two seasons before this one that he has been in the TWolves
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:33 pm
migya wrote:though Chum did say that he could be a SG


Syracuse usually lines him up at the SF position but they do rotate him to the SG position frequently. He's a true swingman. I'd rather see him start as our SG and have him swing to SF if the opposing team's best scorer plays that position. He's a wicked defender.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:21 pm
Chum wrote:
migya wrote:though Chum did say that he could be a SG


Syracuse usually lines him up at the SF position but they do rotate him to the SG position frequently. He's a true swingman. I'd rather see him start as our SG and have him swing to SF if the opposing team's best scorer plays that position. He's a wicked defender.



Sounds the goods then, but probably not a top 2 pick, maybe can be had at #3 or #4
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:35 pm
migya wrote:
bada wrote:Of course you take Wall. I am NOT suggesting if we get the 1st pick, we take Wesley Johnson. But with Curry in place, the possibility of trading the rights to Wall for the rights to Johnson plus 3 1st round picks (2012, 2014, 2016) is very intriguing.



I'd rather trade Wall for a star and one or two other established player. Future 1st rounders aren't sure things. Wall can get you alot, he is that hyped



How do you trade Wall ( something that has no salary value) for a STAR?? You cant. We would need to be under the cap by as much as the starts contract. NOT going to happen. I posted about this earlier in the thread.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:11 am
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
bada wrote:Of course you take Wall. I am NOT suggesting if we get the 1st pick, we take Wesley Johnson. But with Curry in place, the possibility of trading the rights to Wall for the rights to Johnson plus 3 1st round picks (2012, 2014, 2016) is very intriguing.



I'd rather trade Wall for a star and one or two other established player. Future 1st rounders aren't sure things. Wall can get you alot, he is that hyped



How do you trade Wall ( something that has no salary value) for a STAR?? You cant. We would need to be under the cap by as much as the starts contract. NOT going to happen. I posted about this earlier in the thread.



What I meant is trade Wall with other players with salaries that are pretty high, a good example is Maggette. Wall and Maggette would get a real superstar and one or two other players. If Amare was under contract with Phoenix for example, it'd be like getting Amare and Barbosa for Wall and Maggette or something like that. For AJefferson, it'd be like giving Wall and Maggette or AB for AJefferson, CBrewer and Sessions or something like that. Wall seems so hyped with all this talk of him being a future superstar and a once in a decade player.

You get him here, you don't need hum really and can trade him. You can transition the team from one of the worst to one of the best in one trade, that being with coaching change, even FO change as we've all discussed. Even keeping Monta and Curry, just getting Wall and trading him for AJefferson like I listed above, that's a transition that could make the team a contender, though I'd trade Monta and Maggette, as AB would have to go for AJefferson so AR can be the PF and AJeff Center. Opens things up picking Wall
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:31 am
I don't think we're even gonna get the #1 pick. I think we'll get the 3rd or 4th pick. So, with that being said, who do we pick up with that pick? A real SG or a big?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:26 am
KingJames1223 wrote:I don't think we're even gonna get the #1 pick. I think we'll get the 3rd or 4th pick. So, with that being said, who do we pick up with that pick? A real SG or a big?



WJohnson seems the way to go at about that spot in the draft, at elast going by what most in this thread have said about him
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:15 am
migya wrote:
War Years wrote:
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.



We all see things differently, but what I've seen with AJefferson he is a very good defender. He is having a down year, but he has been real good in almost all facets, really all big man facets for the two seasons before this one that he has been in the TWolves


I've already said this but... whatever...


I'd LOVE to get Al Jefferson (as long as Curry and this year's first rounder are not involved in the deal, that is, but everybody else could be). But, unless we get rid of Nellie and get a REAL coach, that move is destined to fail. Jefferson won't be able to play his best bball at our pace.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:00 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:
War Years wrote:
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.



We all see things differently, but what I've seen with AJefferson he is a very good defender. He is having a down year, but he has been real good in almost all facets, really all big man facets for the two seasons before this one that he has been in the TWolves


I've already said this but... whatever...


I'd LOVE to get Al Jefferson (as long as Curry and this year's first rounder are not involved in the deal, that is, but everybody else could be). But, unless we get rid of Nellie and get a REAL coach, that move is destined to fail. Jefferson won't be able to play his best bball at our pace.



Yea, absolutely, AJefferson is a half court player. I'd get him just because his contract is locked in, so it's safer. I still think Amare is the best fitting big here, as he has flourished in the run and gun for years now. Playing the GM, I'd get AJefferson, but I'd do another trade, at least one more
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