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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:12 am
migya wrote:
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
bada wrote:Of course you take Wall. I am NOT suggesting if we get the 1st pick, we take Wesley Johnson. But with Curry in place, the possibility of trading the rights to Wall for the rights to Johnson plus 3 1st round picks (2012, 2014, 2016) is very intriguing.



I'd rather trade Wall for a star and one or two other established player. Future 1st rounders aren't sure things. Wall can get you alot, he is that hyped



How do you trade Wall ( something that has no salary value) for a STAR?? You cant. We would need to be under the cap by as much as the starts contract. NOT going to happen. I posted about this earlier in the thread.



What I meant is trade Wall with other players with salaries that are pretty high, a good example is Maggette. Wall and Maggette would get a real superstar and one or two other players. If Amare was under contract with Phoenix for example, it'd be like getting Amare and Barbosa for Wall and Maggette or something like that. For AJefferson, it'd be like giving Wall and Maggette or AB for AJefferson, CBrewer and Sessions or something like that. Wall seems so hyped with all this talk of him being a future superstar and a once in a decade player.

You get him here, you don't need hum really and can trade him. You can transition the team from one of the worst to one of the best in one trade, that being with coaching change, even FO change as we've all discussed. Even keeping Monta and Curry, just getting Wall and trading him for AJefferson like I listed above, that's a transition that could make the team a contender, though I'd trade Monta and Maggette, as AB would have to go for AJefferson so AR can be the PF and AJeff Center. Opens things up picking Wall


But Migs, that is not enough in terms of salary. Wall and Magette is like 11 mill in salary. Name me a STAR "big"plus a few other players that come to less that 11 mill in salary?

I too would prefer to trade Wall for a PROVEN commodity, however the CBA makes that difficult to get equal value. We would have to package Wall with about 3 or so players to do what you are suggesting. Starts making it hard to get back equal value.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:28 am
Chum wrote:
migya wrote:though Chum did say that he could be a SG


Syracuse usually lines him up at the SF position but they do rotate him to the SG position frequently. He's a true swingman. I'd rather see him start as our SG and have him swing to SF if the opposing team's best scorer plays that position. He's a wicked defender.


He is an NBA SF. I have not seen them play him at the "2" in college Chum.. but certainly have not seen all there games or anywhere close to it. I HAVE seen them play him at PF, but the wing is where he will play in the NBA and I think he has the quickness to defend other 2's but SF should be his natural position
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:30 am
migya wrote:
War Years wrote:
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.



We all see things differently, but what I've seen with AJefferson he is a very good defender. He is having a down year, but he has been real good in almost all facets, really all big man facets for the two seasons before this one that he has been in the TWolves


Migs, have you seen Jefferson play this year? He is a MUCH different player than you might remember. He is still certainly an upgrade for us, but his injuries have changed his game. He is strickly a below the rim type player now. He is still an effective low post scorer and pretty good rebounder, but I would not at all classify him as a "defender"
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 am
bada wrote:
Chum wrote:
migya wrote:though Chum did say that he could be a SG


Syracuse usually lines him up at the SF position but they do rotate him to the SG position frequently. He's a true swingman. I'd rather see him start as our SG and have him swing to SF if the opposing team's best scorer plays that position. He's a wicked defender.


He is an NBA SF. I have not seen them play him at the "2" in college Chum.. but certainly have not seen all there games or anywhere close to it. I HAVE seen them play him at PF, but the wing is where he will play in the NBA and I think he has the quickness to defend other 2's but SF should be his natural position


Hmm, I've watched one full Syracuse game and parts of two others. I have seen Wesley at the SG but not at the PF position. Not saying you are wrong, just haven't seen it myself.

I agree his natural position would be SF but I'd still rather see him moved to SG if he makes it to the Warriors. Then again I'd also like to see AR at the SF position. Then you'd have a long, athletic 6'7" player at SG and a long, athletic 6'11" player at SF. Those two positions seem to be where most of the leagues top scorers are situated, so it would be nice to have physically dominant defenders there.

Two beefy guys in the paint, two long athletic guys on the wings and Curry running the show. Add a tough bench to that and the Warriors will be very competitive. I think they have many of those pieces already and getting W. Johnson puts us much closer to that kind of lineup.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:10 pm
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
bada wrote:Of course you take Wall. I am NOT suggesting if we get the 1st pick, we take Wesley Johnson. But with Curry in place, the possibility of trading the rights to Wall for the rights to Johnson plus 3 1st round picks (2012, 2014, 2016) is very intriguing.



I'd rather trade Wall for a star and one or two other established player. Future 1st rounders aren't sure things. Wall can get you alot, he is that hyped



How do you trade Wall ( something that has no salary value) for a STAR?? You cant. We would need to be under the cap by as much as the starts contract. NOT going to happen. I posted about this earlier in the thread.



What I meant is trade Wall with other players with salaries that are pretty high, a good example is Maggette. Wall and Maggette would get a real superstar and one or two other players. If Amare was under contract with Phoenix for example, it'd be like getting Amare and Barbosa for Wall and Maggette or something like that. For AJefferson, it'd be like giving Wall and Maggette or AB for AJefferson, CBrewer and Sessions or something like that. Wall seems so hyped with all this talk of him being a future superstar and a once in a decade player.

You get him here, you don't need hum really and can trade him. You can transition the team from one of the worst to one of the best in one trade, that being with coaching change, even FO change as we've all discussed. Even keeping Monta and Curry, just getting Wall and trading him for AJefferson like I listed above, that's a transition that could make the team a contender, though I'd trade Monta and Maggette, as AB would have to go for AJefferson so AR can be the PF and AJeff Center. Opens things up picking Wall


But Migs, that is not enough in terms of salary. Wall and Magette is like 11 mill in salary. Name me a STAR "big"plus a few other players that come to less that 11 mill in salary?

I too would prefer to trade Wall for a PROVEN commodity, however the CBA makes that difficult to get equal value. We would have to package Wall with about 3 or so players to do what you are suggesting. Starts making it hard to get back equal value.



Maggette is on 10 million a year and the #1 pick is on about 4 million is he not? That'd make 14 million roughly and that would be enough to get say AJefferson and one other player from Minnesota. Throw in an expirer like Radman and get Sessions or another player that can be used here, but salaries should work out
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:12 pm
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
War Years wrote:
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.



We all see things differently, but what I've seen with AJefferson he is a very good defender. He is having a down year, but he has been real good in almost all facets, really all big man facets for the two seasons before this one that he has been in the TWolves


Migs, have you seen Jefferson play this year? He is a MUCH different player than you might remember. He is still certainly an upgrade for us, but his injuries have changed his game. He is strickly a below the rim type player now. He is still an effective low post scorer and pretty good rebounder, but I would not at all classify him as a "defender"



I think aJefferson will get back to what he was. He was a good defender though and I don't expect him to drop at all
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:20 pm
Trade wall for Jefferson!? You've got to be kidding?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:25 pm
Quazza wrote:Trade wall for Jefferson!? You've got to be kidding?


Yeah, see that is the problem Migs. Wall for Jefferson is a rip off, you start including others and it is a terrible deal.

You just CANT get equal value.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:35 pm
Dream: Chris Bosh

Wouldn't mind: Amare Stoudamire

Most Likely: Noone
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:14 pm
migya wrote:
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
War Years wrote:
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.



We all see things differently, but what I've seen with AJefferson he is a very good defender. He is having a down year, but he has been real good in almost all facets, really all big man facets for the two seasons before this one that he has been in the TWolves


Migs, have you seen Jefferson play this year? He is a MUCH different player than you might remember. He is still certainly an upgrade for us, but his injuries have changed his game. He is strickly a below the rim type player now. He is still an effective low post scorer and pretty good rebounder, but I would not at all classify him as a "defender"



I think aJefferson will get back to what he was. He was a good defender though and I don't expect him to drop at all


Can I ask what that is based on Migs? What is it you are seeing when watching him play that leads you to believe that? Or have you not seen him play this year?

Granted I have seen him only a couple times but he really looks nothing like the player he was in Boston or his first year or so in Minny.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:16 pm
bada wrote:
Quazza wrote:Trade wall for Jefferson!? You've got to be kidding?


Yeah, see that is the problem Migs. Wall for Jefferson is a rip off, you start including others and it is a terrible deal.

You just CANT get equal value.



Depends what you see in aJefferson. You obviously don't think much of him at the moment, then go for someone else, but you can't have Curry, Monta and Wall. Wall at SG next to Curry, might work, might not, maybe worth a try. I'd trade Wall with all the hype he has with Maggette. You'll get a superstar with that, it's just which one and with Amare and Bosh free agents it is not the right time to get a big it looks like, unless it's AJefferson or Dwight, as both are locked in on contracts
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:20 pm
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
bada wrote:
migya wrote:
War Years wrote:
To your last paragraph, the one I highlighted, I disagree that aJefferson is a bad defender, unless he has become one this season. In what i saw in past seasons from him, he is a very good defender with the ability to be a great one, one of the best big player defenders.


My only experience watching Jefferson is when we've played the T-Wolves. And he's never been the slightest impediment to us scoring in the paint. It wouldn't be a defensive move. But he would grab the boards and sink a lot more points than Beans.
I guess I am a liittle like TMC. Let's see how we draft, then the speculation will really be fun.



We all see things differently, but what I've seen with AJefferson he is a very good defender. He is having a down year, but he has been real good in almost all facets, really all big man facets for the two seasons before this one that he has been in the TWolves


Migs, have you seen Jefferson play this year? He is a MUCH different player than you might remember. He is still certainly an upgrade for us, but his injuries have changed his game. He is strickly a below the rim type player now. He is still an effective low post scorer and pretty good rebounder, but I would not at all classify him as a "defender"



I think aJefferson will get back to what he was. He was a good defender though and I don't expect him to drop at all


Can I ask what that is based on Migs? What is it you are seeing when watching him play that leads you to believe that? Or have you not seen him play this year?

Granted I have seen him only a couple times but he really looks nothing like the player he was in Boston or his first year or so in Minny.



I haven't seen a whole game of AJefferson and the TWolves this season, just highlights and footage, and not much either. Players recover from injuries usually, if he doesn't, then he doesn't, but most likely he will. From what I saw his first two seasons in the TWolves, before his injury last season, he was a top 5 big, more of a scorer than Dwight, almost as good a rebounder and shot blocker. The team needs to replace AB and AJefferson is one of the best of the safe , under contract bigs right now
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:18 am
Why does the team need to replace AB? Because he can't shoot free throws? Or because it's time to give up on our 6-11, 245 pound 23-year-old because he's at the end of his career?

What AB needs is a PF, not a SF playing the 4. Beans was a 60% shooter with great hands when Baron was in town, and I for one don't think it's time to ditch him.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:20 am
No Longer StuckInSoCal wrote:Why does the team need to replace AB? Because he can't shoot free throws? Or because it's time to give up on our 6-11, 245 pound 23-year-old because he's at the end of his career?

What AB needs is a PF, not a SF playing the 4. Beans was a 60% shooter with great hands when Baron was in town, and I for one don't think it's time to ditch him.



AB has been pretty awful when he has played this season. Also, this guy isn't going to improve anymore, he is what he is, a rebounder and pretty good shot blocker that doesn't score much and needs a very good PG to be maximised in the little he can do offensively.

AB is worth the money he gets, but not by much and he is not a cheap contract
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:34 am
migya wrote:
No Longer StuckInSoCal wrote:Why does the team need to replace AB? Because he can't shoot free throws? Or because it's time to give up on our 6-11, 245 pound 23-year-old because he's at the end of his career?

What AB needs is a PF, not a SF playing the 4. Beans was a 60% shooter with great hands when Baron was in town, and I for one don't think it's time to ditch him.



AB has been pretty awful when he has played this season. Also, this guy isn't going to improve anymore, he is what he is, a rebounder and pretty good shot blocker that doesn't score much and needs a very good PG to be maximised in the little he can do offensively.

AB is worth the money he gets, but not by much and he is not a cheap contract


Yeah true, I don't think he's found his rhythm this season, yet with all the injuries. But I still can't defend him for the season he's been having. He has really been a disappointment.

Though, Stuck makes a point. Andris' partner in the post has always been someone who shouldn't be playing PF at all. Al Harrington was a PF in a SF's body. He can't rebound compared to all the other PF's, his game is perimeter oriented, and his defense is average at best. Corey Maggette is a SF, period. The fact that he plays PF is ridiculous, but of course... that's Don Nelson for you.

If AB had another body that can bang down low for rebounds and what not, then we may see a different Andris. The guy can't do it by himself.
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