A New Way Of Thinking.

Discuss anything related to Golden State Warriors basketball here

Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, hobbes

Are You Willing To Watch A Slow Down/Defensive Team In Order To Win?

Yes
8
80%
No
2
20%
 
Total votes : 10

User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3244
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:29 am
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:15 pm
PAWNO6124FF171 wrote:
Quazza wrote:"Nelson is a great coach"

No hes not. He might have been once, but he his not now. And it's not the losing I'm basing that on. There's been countless times I've watched games and been left thinking, Wtf, at his decisions, or there lack of

look at the hornets game. Its late and we need a stop. He sits AR who's had 8 blocks to play maggs at the 5! WTF is that?!

There's been countless times over the last 2 seasons hes made flat out bad coaching decisions that's cost us big l


Ahhh... The guy who thinks he can do better from the comfort of his sofa!

Whilst i agree with you Quazza that it's a substitute that leaves you scratching your head in relation why you'd take out the 7 foot guy with 8 block shots to put in the guy who's 4 foot nothing to play a position he's not totally accustom too.

There probably was a valid reason, I have no idea why he did it. But maybe Randolph had a ton of turnovers (you know for every night that dude has 5-6 blocks, the following evening he'll have 6 or 7 TO and get in early fould trouble)


what exactly do turnovers have to do with needing a defensive stop?

but anyway-Nelsons done a TON of stuff like this in the last 2 years. Just used the above as a recent glaring example

All Star
Posts: 2320
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:40 pm
Location: lithuania, gargzdai
Poster Credit: 10
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:24 pm
well, if you want certain perspective on nelson's decision for substitution during hornets game, here's a take http://feltbot.com/2009/12/27/crazy-nel ... nets-game/
"i wish i was a little bit taller" skee lo
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 1532
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:07 am
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:34 pm
martin wrote:well, if you want certain perspective on nelson's decision for substitution during hornets game, here's a take http://feltbot.com/2009/12/27/crazy-nel ... nets-game/


Excellent article! Thanks for posting that martin :)
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3244
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:29 am
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:53 pm
thats an article? looks more like an opinion to me. Something we all have on here

All Star
Posts: 1218
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:56 am
Poster Credit: 2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:56 pm
Chum wrote:
carlgo wrote:People are confusing "small ball" with "fast ball". The key to winning is the "fast" part. Nelson, a flawed and destructive personality, simply tries to go too small and the team grinds to a halt because they get no rebounds and give up a ton of easy baskets on defense.

The Spurs are successful because of what?:

A. Their coach is a control freak, slow-down sort of guy, and that is the "correct way to play" (Dunleavy quote).
B. Their players are better and would win under any system.

The answer has been B.

Fast ball gives the team the best chance to win in the real world of not getting HOF big guys. The reason it has not been more successful here is that Nelson confuses "small" with "fast" and thinks magical thoughts about how the team can be fast without actually getting possession of the ball except on in-bounds after the other team scores after three successive offensive rebounds....

As I say all the time, Nelson is a great coach who coaches poorly, many people thinking that he actually sabotages the team for whatever dark Nellie reasons. No, "small ball" is a failure, but "fast ball" is both entertaining and successful.

I believe this roster could play fast and effectively with the simple addition of another mobile rebounder/defender and a rational coach who concentrates on good lineups, player development, decent defense and an actual offensive structure for those inevitable half-court episodes.

Fast ball is the answer and there wouldn't be the kind of complaints about the team if it actually played that style.

Personally, I hate sumo-ball and won't watch it. I will watch male porn before I tune into big guys grinding it out (don't get excited) while the coach runs up and down the court screaming out every offensive and defensive set.

Watch college ball now, if you can. Horrid. It is simply which team gets the more favorable charging calls and shoots the best from the outside.


I'm in partial agreement with you here carlgo. I think your distinction between "small ball" and "fast ball" is totally accurate, but I don't think Nelson WANTS to play "small ball." He WANTS to play "fast ball" but he can't get the talent for it.

Think back to the days when Webber came to the Warriors. EVERYONE thought we had a championship team. Everyone ie. the fans, Nellie, Webber, the rest of the Warriors, everyone. It was the last piece of Nellie's scheme. A truely talented big man who could run the floor.

I still hear people siding with C-Web over Nellie on this and it makes me sick. Nellie wanted C-Web to play center and C-Web didn't want to. He was a baby about it, and imho he destroyed what would have been the best shot for the Warriors to become champs since the 70s.

I'm of the opinion that I'd take a slow, unspectacular, defensive, grinder of a team if they would win. However I'd much rather watch "fast ball." I think Nellie would as well. Give him a talented big who can run the court and I think we'll all get the best of both worlds.


Don't be too sure Nelson would use his new big fast guy correctly. His history of taking them out when they are doing well is so well known that the word "sabotage" has come up more than once from national writers (I like to think I used it first). That is one serious charge! But, Nelson has a history that is quite bizarre, as Bada noted from his personal involvement.

When Weber left, I was one of those who blamed him. I bought the whole Nelson golly-gee I don't know why Weber won't respond to my kind and fatherly coaching style act. And an act it was. The befuddled expression, the sad eyes, the mournful tones, the sighs...

But, then one day KNBR had a reporter on who described incredibly strange things that were going on at Warrior practices. Nelson taking his shirt off to fight players, terrible verbal abuse and plain craziness. There was other stuff he, like Bada, couldn't talk about. Now I realize there were probably legal ramifications as well as vows of secrecy.

The KNBR hosts just lashed out at this poor reporter and accused him of having a hidden agenda and all. He said to not kill the messenger, but they just about did. When he was off the air, they went into a long discussion about how this was a character assassination of innocent Nellie. Nellie this, Nellie that, in the cuddly diminutive.

The reporter's story shocked me. I loved Nellie. Surely this couldn't be true! But, the reporter was awfully convincing. He wasn't making it up. Clearly this was a real problem and in time, as other evidence trickled in to support it, I really came around to Weber's side.

It is really quite clear now that poor Weber was just a kid really and had no idea how to deal with a huge, drunken crazy man who was also his coach. What would you do? Think about it. Not too many options that would work out for you, are there?

Some people want the split the blame equally. I don't think so.

You have to wonder whether putting Weber at center was a legitimate attempt to win games or if it was simply a way to get at Weber.

Nelson's masterful act worked. The crowds were 90% for him. Everyone thought it was the young punk against the wise and patient coach. Remember that people actually cheered when Weber dislocated his shoulder?

Nelson's eyes probably glow red when he recalls how he suckered everyone with his awe-shucks act. Still does the act, some fans still buy into it. Fewer all the time.

All Star
Posts: 2320
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:40 pm
Location: lithuania, gargzdai
Poster Credit: 10
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:16 pm
it sounds like nelson is a heck of a character. BUT this says nothing about how good or bad he is as a coach game wise. maybe he's not good psychologist, it's easy to see. but well, when guys go to army or war, i guess few mellow and kind generals get any wins.
you must remember one thing, the more complex and intelligent the mid, the more complex and less understandable is one's behaviour. you would sure think einstein is evil if you knew his everyday life curiosities.
so, the argument of nelson's character and behaviour issues really says nothing to zero about who he is as a basketball strategian.
we have, as far as i know, gentle and non ambitious-owner in cohan, it does not transpire into good franschise, does it?
i don't know what went in between nelson and webber, but the fact that webber came back to play for him only shows that that most probably wasn't a rape type crime and people can get through that stuff.
as for being drunk and fighting naked and, oh my god, verbal abuse, i find it rather funny, i thought men do that all the time :mrgreen:
"i wish i was a little bit taller" skee lo
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 5859
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Brisbane
Poster Credit: 31
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:30 pm
Quazza wrote:
what exactly do turnovers have to do with needing a defensive stop?

but anyway-Nelsons done a TON of stuff like this in the last 2 years. Just used the above as a recent glaring example


i read what happened at the end of the game Quazza

& yes myself too would have left Randolph in the game... But you just gotta come to grips with the fact not only Don Nelson would of taken a Sophamore out of the game, but probably 28 other coaches in the league would of taken out the younger guy and put in the vetrans (Granted every other coach in the league would of put in another Centre, But as i've pointed out previously we didn't have any other BIG DEFENDERS to put in there. (certainly not Chris Hunter... haha expecting a NBDL'er to seiz the day is rediculous)
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 1532
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:07 am
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:26 pm
Quazza wrote:thats an article? looks more like an opinion to me. Something we all have on here


So be it.

Excellent, well articulated, sensical, "opinion!" Thanks for posting that martin :)

All Star
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:03 am
Location: san jose
Poster Credit: 17
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:01 pm
Its funny, actual game facts are given to show how Nellie mis-coaches with his small lines ups to end games and taking AR out despite being a gamer changer. But its met with blah blah and he is a "Great Coach".
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3244
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:29 am
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:26 pm
thing is, that was just 1 of many examples


Can remember a game last year where Brandon Wright scored 12 straight points, then was benched for the rest of the game

There's countless examples unfortunately

Rookie
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:23 pm
Location: SF BAY AREA
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:26 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:Its funny, actual game facts are given to show how Nellie mis-coaches with his small lines ups to end games and taking AR out despite being a gamer changer. But its met with blah blah
and he is a "Great Coach".

blah x10. Coach Nelson has learned not to trust these young kids when the game is on the line. He knows his busines. Show some respect for the man!!! Great player, Great coach, and Great man........
STF
As I booked into a hotel, I said to the receptionist, I hope the porn channel in my room is disabled.
"No," she says, It's regular porn, you sick bastard.

All Star
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:03 am
Location: san jose
Poster Credit: 17
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:16 pm
totalljames52 wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:Its funny, actual game facts are given to show how Nellie mis-coaches with his small lines ups to end games and taking AR out despite being a gamer changer. But its met with blah blah
and he is a "Great Coach".

blah x10. Coach Nelson has learned not to trust these young kids when the game is on the line. He knows his busines. Show some respect for the man!!! Great player, Great coach, and Great man........
STF


Haha respect, to pay Hommage to the Great Don I would love to take a dump on his face, his deserved respect from me.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3244
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:29 am
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:23 pm
can ANYONE explain wtf he was doing wit Randolph today!?

15 pts (6-11), 11 rebounds, 2 stls, 1 blk in just 20 minutes. Please, somebody justify Nelsons coaching/minutes distribution there?


to add to this, take his comments after the game

"Nobody but Ellis and Maggette gave us anything."



riigghhtttt?
Last edited by Quazza on Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rookie
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:23 pm
Location: SF BAY AREA
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:51 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:
totalljames52 wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:Its funny, actual game facts are given to show how Nellie mis-coaches with his small lines ups to end games and taking AR out despite being a gamer changer. But its met with blah blah
and he is a "Great Coach".

blah x10. Coach Nelson has learned not to trust these young kids when the game is on the line. He knows his busines. Show some respect for the man!!! Great player, Great coach, and Great man........
STF


Haha respect, to pay Hommage to the Great Don I would love to take a dump on his face, his deserved respect from me.


You have been watching to many videos on your MTV.
With that attitude.

I ask you this do you want to go back to the dark days of coach Montgomery?
I think not
STF
As I booked into a hotel, I said to the receptionist, I hope the porn channel in my room is disabled.
"No," she says, It's regular porn, you sick bastard.
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 7512
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:44 pm
Location: Brighton, England.
Poster Credit: -5
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:38 am
Quazza wrote:can ANYONE explain wtf he was doing wit Randolph today!?

15 pts (6-11), 11 rebounds, 2 stls, 1 blk in just 20 minutes. Please, somebody justify Nelsons coaching/minutes distribution there?


to add to this, take his comments after the game

"Nobody but Ellis and Maggette gave us anything."



riigghhtttt?


Ohh jesus, I just saw that post game comment.

What a f*cking disgusting, insulting, degrading, despicable thing to say..............kid has 15 and 11 in 20 minutes and "Apart from Monta and Maggette, we got nothing from anyone else"

Way to coach and motivate, you fat f*cking useless piece of sh*t.

What the hell does Randolph have to do!!! to be able to get a CHANCE to provide with rebounding and shot blocking............not like we need that huh?

Whats the excuse for this then Nelson apologists??? seriously, how you can guys defend him............honestly? there are no ways to defend him, none.
PreviousNext

Return to Warriors Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron