Jackson is a net positive for the team. Agree or disagree?

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Is Jackson a net positive for the team?

6%
Hell yes. We'd be'd nowhere without our swaggering and fiery captain jack!
2
19%
Hell no. He is an ego-driven, tech-drawing, ballhogging turnover machine
6
6%
Can't we just start another thread bashing Crawful and Maggot? Please???
2
59%
He's a great 2nd or 3rd option, but the problem is, we have no #1 option
19
9%
I loved his early work, but haven't liked anything since Thriller!
3

Total votes: 32

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All Star
Posts: 2341
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:08 am
Great discussion. Good points!

There has been a few games this year, or maybe I should say quarters, where Jack seems to have calmed down and played more within himself.
Maybe it was after Nelson talked to him... Either way,
He is a veteran and should know better. There is a way for him to still play balls out but smart. Someone needs to get in his ear and explain to him that with our roster healthy, there is a different role for him to play. Sacrifice the glory for making a smart play. Every time he drives I cringe...
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Posts: 3040
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:16 pm
Jackattack wrote:Great discussion. Good points!

There has been a few games this year, or maybe I should say quarters, where Jack seems to have calmed down and played more within himself.
Maybe it was after Nelson talked to him... Either way,
He is a veteran and should know better. There is a way for him to still play balls out but smart. Someone needs to get in his ear and explain to him that with our roster healthy, there is a different role for him to play. Sacrifice the glory for making a smart play. Every time he drives I cringe...

I prefer him driving to taking the contested 3, because sometimes he is really effective on drives. However, you are right on the larger point, he needs to play SMART, and he often doesn't.
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Posts: 1757
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:19 pm
coltraning wrote:
Jackattack wrote:Great discussion. Good points!

There has been a few games this year, or maybe I should say quarters, where Jack seems to have calmed down and played more within himself.
Maybe it was after Nelson talked to him... Either way,
He is a veteran and should know better. There is a way for him to still play balls out but smart. Someone needs to get in his ear and explain to him that with our roster healthy, there is a different role for him to play. Sacrifice the glory for making a smart play. Every time he drives I cringe...

I prefer him driving to taking the contested 3, because sometimes he is really effective on drives. However, you are right on the larger point, he needs to play SMART, and he often doesn't.


If Jax would play within himself and play the game he should play, he would be a borderline All-Star. At times, he looks like a rock on the floor...the veteran that you can build a team around, he can run the floor, he fills passing lanes, he makes the right passes, knocks down the big shot......then he drives into traffic and turns it over and jacks up shot after shot when he is ice cold. If Jackson would play the game he can and should play, I would love to have him around with the nucleus of this team. Jax at his best is an ideal SF with Monta and Crawford in the backcourt.

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Posts: 2956
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:15 pm
"Always" Next wrote:
coltraning wrote:
Jackattack wrote:Great discussion. Good points!

There has been a few games this year, or maybe I should say quarters, where Jack seems to have calmed down and played more within himself.
Maybe it was after Nelson talked to him... Either way,
He is a veteran and should know better. There is a way for him to still play balls out but smart. Someone needs to get in his ear and explain to him that with our roster healthy, there is a different role for him to play. Sacrifice the glory for making a smart play. Every time he drives I cringe...

I prefer him driving to taking the contested 3, because sometimes he is really effective on drives. However, you are right on the larger point, he needs to play SMART, and he often doesn't.


If Jax would play within himself and play the game he should play, he would be a borderline All-Star. At times, he looks like a rock on the floor...the veteran that you can build a team around, he can run the floor, he fills passing lanes, he makes the right passes, knocks down the big shot......then he drives into traffic and turns it over and jacks up shot after shot when he is ice cold. If Jackson would play the game he can and should play, I would love to have him around with the nucleus of this team. Jax at his best is an ideal SF with Monta and Crawford in the backcourt.


Did you say Jax runs the floor? He is the slowest 3/4 in the league. he can't jump a lick and he is the worst rebounding 6'8" guy in the league. PS: No one asked him to be a 1. he took that upon himself becacuse he doesn't trust his team mates and he thinks he's Kobe.
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Posts: 2862
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:25 pm
FO wrote:I don't know how guys can keep calling this guy CAPTAIN jack... where is the swagger he has brought this team? we play to the level of whatever team we are facing, that is the sign of a mentally weak team. I don't care what you say, we didn't play a qtr and a half of basketball in the OKC game or the T'Wolves game. that's what allowed them to win. and did I mention he is LEADING the league in turnovers by miles?!?! as of last night he is now avg 4 turn overs a game!

It's getting worse too!

TO in Nov
- 3.7
TO in Dec
- 3.8
TO in Jan
- 4.7

some other sobering numbers.
13th worst in the league in assist to TO ratio at 1.15
3rd in total turnovers

if we avg 15 TO a game and jackson avg 4 TO a game... that means he accounts for ~25% of our TOs. but he did sit out a bunch of games so that isn't fair.

totals for the season in TOs
Jax 136 (leading by over 50TOs to second place Andris with 84!)
total for the team this team - 660
so he has comprised realistically >20% of our TOs (20.6% to be exact)
after looking at a bunch of games I've surmised that the warriors give up ~ for every TO teams score 1.5 pts on us so...

teams have scored 990 pts off of TO and roughly 200 of those pts have come from jackson alone! case in point he sucks!



why does everyone want this guy starting over maggette? maggs may not be a team player and his defense may not be great, but at least he turns it over less than jax. and the thing that pisses me off the most, is when he turns it over and then just cherry picks, hoping that the rest of the team will do the dirty work and get him the ball back so he can do the same shiit over again.

The guy ruined our flow last night... if I was him I'd tell a reporter "you can blame that loss on me."


guess this belongs here
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Rookie
Posts: 75
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:31 pm
Captain_Jack wrote:Stephen Jackson is not a point guard.

End of story, ask anyone to be something they're not and you're not going to get the result you want.


This sums up my thoughts perfectly. Jax is a role player, above avg. shooter with some clutch moments and solid defense. However I'm not convinced that his moments of brightness overshadow his f*** ups example: 2 very clutch shots on lebron vs. the cavs but 5 TOs that led to points for the cavs earlier in the game. Plus 40% from the field is atrocious.

All Star
Posts: 2956
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:33 pm
first off wrote:
FO wrote:I don't know how guys can keep calling this guy CAPTAIN jack... where is the swagger he has brought this team? we play to the level of whatever team we are facing, that is the sign of a mentally weak team. I don't care what you say, we didn't play a qtr and a half of basketball in the OKC game or the T'Wolves game. that's what allowed them to win. and did I mention he is LEADING the league in turnovers by miles?!?! as of last night he is now avg 4 turn overs a game!

It's getting worse too!

TO in Nov
- 3.7
TO in Dec
- 3.8
TO in Jan
- 4.7

some other sobering numbers.
13th worst in the league in assist to TO ratio at 1.15
3rd in total turnovers

if we avg 15 TO a game and jackson avg 4 TO a game... that means he accounts for ~25% of our TOs. but he did sit out a bunch of games so that isn't fair.

totals for the season in TOs
Jax 136 (leading by over 50TOs to second place Andris with 84!)
total for the team this team - 660
so he has comprised realistically >20% of our TOs (20.6% to be exact)
after looking at a bunch of games I've surmised that the warriors give up ~ for every TO teams score 1.5 pts on us so...

teams have scored 990 pts off of TO and roughly 200 of those pts have come from jackson alone! case in point he sucks!



why does everyone want this guy starting over maggette? maggs may not be a team player and his defense may not be great, but at least he turns it over less than jax. and the thing that pisses me off the most, is when he turns it over and then just cherry picks, hoping that the rest of the team will do the dirty work and get him the ball back so he can do the same shiit over again.

The guy ruined our flow last night... if I was him I'd tell a reporter "you can blame that loss on me."


guess this belongs here


Excellent!!!! :D :D :D :D

Ok I will disapear again.
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Starting Lineup
Posts: 811
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:23 pm
Don’t disappear, Reg. I enjoy you and your comments, my man.
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Starting Lineup
Posts: 811
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:36 pm
Quazza wrote:
CjR wrote:Yeah, all we can do is hope, but frankly, I don't think he will. He has a large ego, a lot of pride, and thinks the rest are young and inexperienced and he’s the vet with a ring. There’s no one on this team mentally tough or vocal enough to keep Jackson in check. No one gets on him for lagging on D or or dribbling too much and turning the ball over. This won't change with Monta back. Monta is not vocal (certianly not over Jax) and Monta is no PG.


i dunno. There was a time in yesterdays game i noticed Monta pull Jacks aside, put his arm around him and say a few things


Actually, of all the games, I missed Friday’s with Monta’s return. After work party was more important. :wink: Not sure what that talk was specifically for (could be a number of things), but my money is still on Jax to be Jax. Tonight, he only had one turnover where he dribbled left and the ball got away from him (not surprising). But he shot the ball like sh*t also (no surprise there, either) except for those 2 threes.

But we'll see how things play out.

All Star
Posts: 2956
» Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:41 pm
CjR wrote:Don’t disappear, Reg. I enjoy you and your comments, my man.


Thanks CjR, I will pop in when I feel real passionate about something (smile). :) Like Stephen friggin Jackson
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All Star
Posts: 2862
» Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:01 am
here's what I am predicting... with a healthy monta, crawford, and maggs... jax will be the one coming off the bench.
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Posts: 3618
» Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:11 am
first off wrote:here's what I am predicting... with a healthy monta, crawford, and maggs... jax will be the one coming off the bench.


im pretty sure we all know that maggette will have the fire cracker role off of the bench

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Posts: 2956
» Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:31 am
If you had to choose between Jackson and Azu who would you choose? Why?
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Posts: 3040
» Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:17 pm
The Coooach wrote:If you had to choose between Jackson and Azu who would you choose? Why?

starting? Depends how the Ellis Crawford combo works.
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Posts: 3040
» Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:18 pm
8th ave wrote:
first off wrote:here's what I am predicting... with a healthy monta, crawford, and maggs... jax will be the one coming off the bench.


im pretty sure we all know that maggette will have the fire cracker role off of the bench

I agree. Maggette is fragile, and I agree with Nelson limiting his minutes. 30 minutes a game seems about right. Also, by having him come off the bench, he does even more damage when he enters a game, since the first team for the oppo is resting.

He is destroying the other team in his 6th man role.

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