Pros, Cons, and Future Improvement of the Warriors Roster

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Posts: 2862
» Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:21 pm
Hey what's up y'all. not as much to talk about this week since we're not signin' n' tradin' left and right. I was trying to come up with Pros and Cons of Al's game on another thread and I thought: why not do all the warriors, and then debate, agree/disagree, etc.

So pick a player, or two, or all, and list what you think the pros and cons of his game are in addition to where you see them headed / what con they need to improve the most. kinda like what they do on draft day, that sort of thing.

whatever, it beats bashing that dumb ass that wanted to fire Mullin or talking about oklandfantastic's crazy ass.

Here's what I said for Al H. on a different thread

warrior 4 life85 wrote:As much as I've been saying Al is a vagina (cause he kinda is), there's one BIG difference between last year and this year ppl don't point out. He doesn't have to be a Center back up any more! The guy is 6'9" and he's guarding 6'11" Centers! you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that if you are banging down low, using your body to bang out the shaq's and the Chandler's and the Howard's of the league, your going to get tired fairly quickly.

Thinking about it now, that was the silent killer in his O-Game, and also the reason why he was low in the rebounding category as well. Biedrins started 59 games last year, and he missed ~9 games completely. PO'B was a bust, Kosta Perovic had shoes made out of cement, so that means Al probably started all the games that AB missed. It also makes sense that he'd be asking to be traded since playing center isn't his natural position (I look at him more as a chunky 3 guard than a PF even).
...
I do think Al is the weakest part of our starting lineup. that's pretty obvious. However, if we trade him, it should be for someone of good quality. I don't want to trade for a "Darius Miles", maybe someone who's flashy cause he's got springs on his feet, but can't hit a mid-range jumper, has attitude problems and lacks the fundamentals.

Al's Pros:
-confident (note how I didn't say consistent) outside jumper
-few turnovers
-good attitude
-healthy
-can create his own shot occasionally
-not a ball hog
-he's a 10 year vet that's only 28
-good bulk (240lbs)
-runs the floor well

Al's Cons:
-not tough enough for someone his size
-doesn't get to the foul line often enough
-virtually no assists (doesn't make others around him better besides taking the lead in offence once in a while)
-not a reliable shooter
-poor strength
-poor rebounding
-few, if any, post moves unless its a mismatch (no hook shots, or pump fakes)
-disappears during big games
-and then there's the defense, or lack there of


He has two main goals next season:
1st bring the veteran x-factor to every game - meaning playing smart basketball, no silly turnovers, being mentally tough, etc.. thats going to be crucial being as their are only 2 other vets on the team.
The 2nd goal is raising his assist and rebound numbers, or basically being a more well-rounded player. a lot of times last yr I'd see us slip into a "5 individual players" type of team. no ball movement, no communication, just who's hot now? OK lets give him an iso play every time until he gets cold...

not this year
-see the open man? pass. can't see a way to the rim? pass. make the defense move and get tired.
-don't just hang out their on the 3pt line, get in there and snag an O-board once in a while. set screens. do the little things that will make the team better besides scoring. plus that will up his value too, if we need to trade him.

[I'll red out the one's that have been done. If they've been done a lot they'll be in dark red.]

Point Guard Monta Ellis Marcus Williams C.J. Watson
Shooting Guard Stephen Jackson Marco Belinelli
Small Forward Corey Maggette Kelenna Azubuike Anthony Randolph
Power Forward Al Harrington Brandan Wright Richard Hendrix
Center Andris Biedrins Ronny Turiaf Kosta Perovic
Last edited by first off on Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Rookie
Posts: 2
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:02 pm
I agree with most of what you said, but I do think that on occasions Al shows good passing ability. Some times during the games, Al would post at the high block and flip an alley-oop to Andris or Monta (depending on who is open). I do think that we will see an upgrade from Al of last year. For some reason that I fail to understand, Biedrins didn't get a lot of minutes and Nelson didn't seem to trust Wright enough (even though he showed up most of the time to play) to play as a rebounding big who defends the block and Harrington ended up as our backup C by default.

I find it hard to believe that we will see the same thing next year since Mullin went out of his way to get Turiaf who has shown he can play the 4/5 position in the NBA consistently. Since we don't have to worry so much about Al's body taking a brusing from playing out of position I don't think we will have to worry as much about Al's end of the year suckiness. In his two years as a Warrior, Al has shown that about after 45-50 games, his legs give out and his shot stops falling. Once Al cannot shoot well in the game, he becomes dead weight on the floor. Can't shoot well, can't rebound well, can't play good post D, but because he will have to physically exert himself less, I think that Al will be effective for more time into the year.

I'll post a pro/con on a player later.

Rookie
Posts: 2
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:57 pm
I'm gonna do Marco Belinelli simply because he is the most puzzling Warrior to watch.

Belinelli was picked # 18 overall by the Warriors. The moment he was picked it seemed rather puzzling because it caused a glutton of guards (J-Rich/Monta/Belinelli all at shooting guard). Later when Jason Richardson was traded for Brandan Wright, the trade was seen as a sign of two things.

1. Monta Ellis was to be part of the future for the Warriors and the Warriors had traded J-Rich to make room financially for Ellis and Biedrins.
2. Belinelli was going to back up Ellis or be a sharp shooting starter that the Warriors hadn't had in a long time.

During the summer league Belinelli bedazzled fans, executives, and sportswriters with his sharpshooting ability and his uncanny knack for making the impossible shots. Sportswriters began hyping Belinelli up to be a ready to contribute player for the Warriors who would make noise in the league. Warriors fans were excited at the prospect of Belinelli playing big minutes and Don Nelson called Belinelli a potential superstar at one point.

When the season began, the big flop did as well. Belinelli came in to play significant minutes off the bench and showed little to warrant playing time. His shots did not fall and his defense was incredibly poor.

Belinelli eventually fell out of the rotation and onto the inactive list until the end of the year when he started to see more minutes during the Warriors unsucsessful playoff run. Belinelli's first big action game came against the Memphis Grizzlies. Belinelli came in and began three pointers and insane fadeaways like it was Las Vegas summer league again. Belinelli continued to see a bit of action off the bench and played the last game of the season and scored a career high 17 points.

Pros -

- Belinelli's shot is gorgeous
- When he gets hot, watch out. He can go for 15 straight in a blink.
- Belinelli is definitely capable of handing the ball for short periods of times.
- He seems to have good court vision and can make very quick passes when defenders don't expect them
- Has good offensive awareness
- Seems to have the talent to be able to play defense if he worked on it.
- Plays decent team defense

Cons -

- Belinelli at this point is terribly slow on defense and is just heaven for a good 1 on 1 player.
- Reaches too much at this point on D.
- Belinelli's shot selection is terrible. He can make many of the shots when he heats up, but if he doesn't get a good bucket in first, he'll chuck the same shots over and over again to no avail.
- Belinelli fades away too much on the shots. He can make them, but its incredibly risky unless he's on fire.
- Makes questionable dribbling desicions. In summer league, he'll often dribble to the corner as if to take a shot, but he'll get doubled and he'll chuck a high two handed lob cross court to a teammate. Somehow it gets into his teammates hands, but it won't work at the NBA level.
- Belinelli's consistency is pretty bad. If he isn't making shots, he's not very effective on the court.
- Needs to have multiple skills. Needs to be a better defender and ball handler so he can help out teams when his shot doesn't fall.

What Belinelli should do next season -

- Work on the defensive end so he's not a 6th player for the offensive team. Work on his lateral quickness and begin bulking up so that he can be a player that's tough enough to put some contact on the offensive player.
- Work on the ball handling and dribbling. If he can become a solid combo guard, he should be able to provide a lot more to the team since he can dribble and shoot well.
- Make sure that he gets a good first shot in. Don't make the first shot an off balance fadeaway jumper. If he can hit a set shot first, he has a much better chance of getting hot.

What to expect next year -

- About 10-15 minutes off the bench, maybe more or less depending on his shooting. If he gets hot or his hitting shots at a solid clip (43-50 percent) we should expect to see his minutes raise more often.
- Better decision making. The coaches better nail it into his head that he's not Kobe and that he's not obligated to every shot that he feels he wants to take.

Best case scenario -

- Belinelli is an excellent sixth/seventh man next year who comes off the bench for 20-25 minutes to shoot and maybe even handle the ball for a couple of minutes.

Worst Case Scenario -

- Not much improvement from last year. Plays about 40-45 games but he isn't a factor coming off the bench.

Rookie
Posts: 139
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:02 pm
You guys are in for some reading. Correct me if I’m wrong though because I haven’t been able to see a lot of these guys gameplay.

First of all, we all know, is defense. Everyone needs to work on their D. They have to start closing out shots, putting pressure on the team’s main offensive weapons, and have the will to keep that effort up. Hopefully with the inclusion of all our young talent, everyone will be more motivated and energized to do this

Secondly, the Warriors have to work on their chemistry. Nellie is responsible for this. He needs to make sure he puts the right line-ups together and make sure that he can keep true to his word and give the newcomers more PT. I really hope that we have a successful training camp, and that we come out looking like a team that knows how to play with each other.

As for individual critiques, I’ll just talk about the rooks and the sophs.

Buike:
His D is pretty solid as long as he puts in the effort. But especially since he will be the backup 2/3, I’m pretty sure that he will be putting in that extra effort to retain his minutes because Randolph will be right on his heels.
Areas in his D that he needs to improve:
Working the passing lanes for steals
Weak-side rebounding
Off-ball defense and not losing his man off of screens
Closing out shooters and chasing screens.

His offense is also pretty well established. He needs to start finishing stronger at the rim though. I would like to see him getting more aggressive and attacking the rim with those huge arms of his. Really though, he needs to start throwing down some Tomahawk dunks. His 3’s are decent, but could use some work. Not specifically a priority with Al, Jackson, and Bellinelli, but couldn’t hurt. I would like to see him get a better set jumper though. He can shoot off the dribble, but has a hard time hitting a mid-range jumper, from what I’ve seen.

Most of all I would like to see him develop his handles and passing skills. It would be good for him and add another facet to his game, with him being able to take slower 3’s off the dribble, or at least making the 2’s keep up with him and trying to finish on the inside.

Belinelli:
Of course his D. Needs to respond quicker, faster lateral movement, better awareness, needs to keep track of man, especially on loose boards. D is a real factor for his PT though. He really has to prove himself in this regard. Could make up for his shortcomings by getting more steals or boards. Unlike the other people on the team, it’s not the effort that he is lacking; it’s the actual ability to keep up with his counterparts.

On the other end of the court, he needs much better shot selection. He won’t be able to pull those off-balance shots against actual NBA player’s who actually play D.If he doesn’t fix that, his FG% is going to go way down. What I saw in summer league I like though. He drove hard to the basket a lot and went to the line, which is always good. What I would like to see coming out of that though, is I want him to drive and look for a second option more instead of trying to shoot or get the foul. If people want to compare him to Ginobilli, he should try to play more like him. Penetrate and then if he can’t find his shot, either pass it out or dribble back out.

In my opinion, I can possibly see him playing the point at some time. He has handles, good passing as demonstrated a little during SL, and can work off of a lot of pick and rolls. If he does end up handling the ball more, he needs to work on his court vision. Hence the drive and kick.

Hendrix:
Not exactly sure what to say because I haven’t seen much of him. I like his rebound numbers and his blocks though. Seems like he’s at a good weight, but I’m just worried if he is going to be able to keep running up and down with us. Like I said, haven’t seen much of him.

Can he finish in the paint? Or is he mainly a rebounding and defensive machine? If he could put up around 5-6 PPG with limited PT and shots, then I think he’s steady there. From his numbers though, he needs to work no his FTs, they look bad at around 50%.

Randolph:
So much to say about this guy. Main thing I’m concerned about is his personality. From different articles, they say that he is very confident and wants to “prove the doubters wrong.” Seems like a strong personality, but at the same time he is only 19 years old. Will he get punked hard in the NBA? If so, how will he react? Hopefully he’ll pick up some of Jackson’s attitude and not follow Wright’s lack of aggression (nothing against Wright). At the same time though, with all the praise that he has been getting, I really hope he does not get a big ego. His ego will surely stunt his development and he may start relying on his natural abilities. If that happens he may just get stuck playing at a mediocre level and his potential will be wasted.

His D could use a lot of work, mainly because he will be guarding bigger people. He will get pushed around and killed in the paint. He needs to start working on denying the ball altogether from getting down to the post. If he can bulk up, that’s perfect, but from the looks of it, that doesn’t seem like something that will happen anytime soon. What I think he needs to do is work a lot of drills on deny the post pass. Just keeping his hands up should be good. I hope his rebounds will stay consistent and that he will be able to get position or height over the larger players.

His offensive is just naturally gifted. He has been only playing the game of basketball for 6 years! And already he is able to score almost at will. He does take a good amount of bad shots and ones that seem very out of control (especially when driving). He just needs to get more experience and up his basketball IQ. This may be a problem in Nellie’s system, especially when most shots are considered good. His driving ability is good because he can take many people off the dribble and then either drive or shoot a jumper. He just needs to know when to do what and when to give up the ball.

Williams:
I said before that he is a low risk/high reward player when we got him. He just needs to get into shape and then I’d be somewhat happy. I like the fact that he is a past first PG and especially being a back up to Kidd you have to have learned something or at least picked up a few pointers. Although I am worried about his work ethic. It sometimes seems as if he has just conceded to being a back up PG for his career. If Nellie puts him up front for a while though, things may change. If he really wants it, which we will have to see, then he has the opportunity to excel in the Warriors form of play.

Not sure about his D. Seems like he is a little lazy on that aspect. Doesn’t seem like he’ll be able to get many steals to offset his lack of D. I just really hope he can get into good enough condition just to stay with his man, mainly because he is not needed for scoring. If he can start crashing boards too, that would be better. I’d rather see him become more of a Kidd than the frequently compared Deron Williams.

No need for offense other than a stable 3 point shot or mid to long range jumper.

If he can be a Kidd in the making, he would be perfect.

Wright:
Man I hope this guy has a break out year. Him and Belinelli need to make sure to step up and establish their spots in the rotation. In my eyes though, Wright needs to work a good amount of things before he can break out as the PF we need. First of course he needs to bulk up, needs to practice a little bit more on his footwork, and work harder on the D end. He’s a decent scorer and off rebounder, but we need him more on D to help change people’s shots especially when they get into the lane. I can see him as a Marcus Camby in the future.

I like his shot blocking ability, but he needs to work on his timing. Also, he needs to be more fierce when putting on pressure. He’s too much of a nice guy to be our bruiser, so instead I just want him to be more of a weak-side defender, coming in and helping pick up players that get into the lane. If he can just stay big in the lane that would help a lot. He may get dunked on a lot, but hey, it’s good for the kid’s experience.

On offense, he’s alright. Could use some more post moves, maybe even a baby hook or a small fade away banker. I’m not sure if he hands to do that though. It seems like he can, but I dunno.

Watson:
As for him, I’m not sure if we really need him anymore. A scoring PG that can pass and dribble is good, but if Monta and Williams develop enough, I could see us letting him walk away in 2009.

Well that’s it! Damn that was long. Anyways let me know what you think. I’m not sure about a couple of points but they’re just based on what I had seen.

Rookie
Posts: 54
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:34 pm
damn you guys sure do know alot about the warriors.

Rookie
Posts: 24
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:01 pm
damn you guys sure do know alot about the warriors.


That's why I love reading thier posts!
User avatar

All Star
Posts: 2862
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:48 pm
bold I agree with, italics I disagree

cabangbangq wrote:I'm gonna do Marco Belinelli ....

Pros -

- Belinelli's shot is gorgeous
- When he gets hot, watch out. He can go for 15 straight in a blink.
- Belinelli is definitely capable of handing the ball for short periods of times.
- He seems to have good court vision and can make very quick passes when defenders don't expect them
- Has good offensive awareness
- Seems to have the talent to be able to play defense if he worked on it.
- Plays decent team defense


Cons -

- Belinelli at this point is terribly slow on defense and is just heaven for a good 1 on 1 player.
- Reaches too much at this point on D.
- Belinelli's shot selection is terrible. He can make many of the shots when he heats up, but if he doesn't get a good bucket in first, he'll chuck the same shots over and over again to no avail.
- Belinelli fades away too much on the shots. He can make them, but its incredibly risky unless he's on fire.
- Makes questionable dribbling desicions. In summer league, he'll often dribble to the corner as if to take a shot, but he'll get doubled and he'll chuck a high two handed lob cross court to a teammate. Somehow it gets into his teammates hands, but it won't work at the NBA level.
- Belinelli's consistency is pretty bad. If he isn't making shots, he's not very effective on the court.
- Needs to have multiple skills. Needs to be a better defender and ball handler so he can help out teams when his shot doesn't fall.

What Belinelli should do next season -

- Work on the defensive end so he's not a 6th player for the offensive team. Work on his lateral quickness and begin bulking up so that he can be a player that's tough enough to put some contact on the offensive player.
- Work on the ball handling and dribbling. If he can become a solid combo guard, he should be able to provide a lot more to the team since he can dribble and shoot well.
- Make sure that he gets a good first shot in. Don't make the first shot an off balance fadeaway jumper. If he can hit a set shot first, he has a much better chance of getting hot.

What to expect next year -

- About 10-15 minutes off the bench, maybe more or less depending on his shooting. If he gets hot or his hitting shots at a solid clip (43-50 percent) we should expect to see his minutes raise more often.
- Better decision making. The coaches better nail it into his head that he's not Kobe and that he's not obligated to every shot that he feels he wants to take.

Best case scenario -

- Belinelli is an excellent sixth/seventh man next year who comes off the bench for 20-25 minutes to shoot and maybe even handle the ball for a couple of minutes.

Worst Case Scenario -

- Not much improvement from last year. Plays about 40-45 games but he isn't a factor coming off the bench.


I'd add to the pro's:

-he played professionally in Italy for many years (I think 5?) and thats a more challenging environment than College.
-young and no history of injury

and to cons:
- lacks energy. doesn't strike me as a hustle player. he may be able to hit 3pts blindfolded, but if he's cold no use on the floor (much like Al Harrington).
- seems kinda weak
- doesn't create his shot very well, even jumpers. It'd be cool to have an Italian Rip Hamilton on our team! Running around getting his defender tired and then popping of a screen and knocking the shot down. Wouldn't have to worry about D'ing up as hard then

Future:
- D up! hitting the gym and growing some guns would hurt either. It seems like foreign players master fundamentals but can never get the toughness aspect of basketball down. Dirk, Ilgauscas, belli, manu, Floppy divacs. what's up with that ish?

All Star
Posts: 3310
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:59 pm
warrior 4 life85 wrote:Future:
- D up! hitting the gym and growing some guns would hurt either. It seems like foreign players master fundamentals but can never get the toughness aspect of basketball down. Dirk, Ilgauscas, belli, manu, Floppy divacs. what's up with that ish?


those guys are all euro guys...the only euro guy ive known to actually play tough D is biedrins...and AK47 i guess, haha. but other than those two, for the most part i only see euro guys tryin to draw charges and flopping instead of playing D
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All Star
Posts: 2862
» Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:17 pm

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