NBA Legends 2nd Edition: DONE (DROPPING DOWN)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:50 pm
I (obviously) disagree with that Chris Paul statement. Chris Paul is having a season that is comprable to Steve Nash's MVP seasons. His season so far is already better than any of Baron's as well. Dwight Howard is to modern centers as Chris Paul is to modern PGs.

By no means am I knocking the Baron pick or Baron as a player, but I feel that Paul's numbers and performance this season justify where I took him.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:10 pm
Thunder wrote:I (obviously) disagree with that Chris Paul statement. Chris Paul is having a season that is comprable to Steve Nash's MVP seasons. His season so far is already better than any of Baron's as well. Dwight Howard is to modern centers as Chris Paul is to modern PGs.

By no means am I knocking the Baron pick or Baron as a player, but I feel that Paul's numbers and performance this season justify where I took him.



I stated what the criteria for picking in the Legends Draft is and we knew that last year as well. Chris Paul just has not been around long enough to be considered in this, though he has talent. Also, I don't think this season's performance should count at all as it is not a completed season, not even half. Chris Paul has been real good in his short career but Baron has been at or near the top level for PGs for over six years
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:26 pm
For my last pick I'm taking another guy who primarily played in the ABA, though he was also a top 5 player in the NBA for a few seasons, Spencer Haywood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:13 pm
I'll round it out with Yao Ming. It was between him and Tony Parker but I figured I needed some height rather than another PG.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:44 am
Well, to finish off my draft, I'm gonna add the first euro guy that truly had an impact in the NBA (no, not Uwe Blab):

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Detlef Schrempf


Weird... I've got the backbone of the Sonics team that went to the finals.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:14 am
Nice picks by all.

I'll finish off my team with a big that has been perhaps the best defensive player for at least the last decade if not more.


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Ben Wallace


NBA Champion (2004)
four-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2002, 2003, 2005 and 2006) five-time NBA First All-Defensive Team (2002-2006) and once to NBA Second All-Defensive Team (2007)
three-time All-NBA Second Team member (2003, 2004, 2006)
two-time All-NBA Third Team honoree (2002, 2005)
four-time NBA All-Star (2003-2006)
led the NBA with 13.0 rpg and 3.48 bpg and became one of four players in NBA history to lead the league in rebounds and blocks in the same season (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1975-76, Bill Walton 1976-77, Hakeem Olajuwon 1989-90)
is one of five players in NBA history to have posted 100 or more steals and 100 or more blocks in a season seven times, joining Hakeem Olajuwon (12 times), Julius Erving (seven times), Sam Lacey (seven times) and David Robinson (seven times)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:08 pm
Ben Wallace was a great pick -I was hoping against hope that he or Yao would slip...however, I have plenty of defense at center, and tons of firepower everywhere else, so for my last pick, arguably the 2nd best defensive guard after MJ, 9-time all NBA defensive team: Dennis Johnson, aka the Lakers killer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:55 pm
Hmm, I think I'll ex-Warrior Mookie Blaylock.

And with the last pick, Mr. Irrelevant is...
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:08 pm
Well, Mookie certainly is not a player I had on the list
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:32 pm
migya wrote:Well, Mookie certainly is not a player I had on the list


Yeah, I just thought about taking an ex-Warrior on the list. And since I'm overflowing with forwards, why not a guard? Just a fan pick since I liked Mookie.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:32 pm
Well, I'm surprised he slipped this far and I'll nab him before he falls off the board. To round out my last bit of firepower---Carmelo Anthony.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:39 pm
well of course, im picking Red Auerbach
"the victorious warrior wins first, and then goes to war; the defeated warrior goes to war first, and hopes to win."- The Art of War

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:37 am
Here are our teams from last year for comparison.

Interesting that JPat, picking #1, has a very similar team to coltraning, picking #1 last year.


Team by team comparison from last year to this year (for those who were in both):

JPat - MJ, Nash, Lebron, George Mikan, Willis Reed, Bernard King, Nate Archibald, Adrian Dantley, Mutombo, Unseld, Amare
(Last Year) Wilt, Barkley, Iceman, Cousy, dominique wilkins, Wes Unseld, payton, Bernard King, Hal Greer, Richmond, Mullin, Bosh

xbay - Wilt, Maravich, Gervin, Walton, Drexler, Bing, Sam Jones, Jerry Lucas, Ray Allen, Dave Cowens, Webber, Blaylock
(Last Year) Bill Russell, Dr. J, Isiah, Pippen, Mikan, Wade, Reed, Artis Gilmore, Sam Jones, chris webber, Chris Paul, Dave Debusschere

coltraning - Magic, Kobe, KG, Rick Barry, Dwight Howard, Nate Thurmond, Bob McAdoo, Kevin Johnson, Vince Carter, Elton Brand, Billy Cunningham, Dennis Johnson
(Last Year) Jordan, Lebron, Walton, Nash, Dirk, Kidd, Carter, Amare, Cowens, Dantley, Ray Allen, Joe Fulks

migya - Bird, Duncan, Admiral, Ewing, Havlicek, Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Tim Hardaway, Lenny Wilkens, Joe Dumars, Hal Greer, Ben Wallace
(Last Year) Larry Bird, Hakeem, KG, Tim Hardaway, TMac, Ewing, Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Kevin Johnson, Pete Maravich, Paul Pierce, Walt Bellamy

TMC - Kareem, Karl Malone, Isiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, Iverson, Payton, Earl Monroe, Bob Lanier, Walt Frazier, Walt Bellamy, Shawn Kemp, Detlef Schrempf
(Last Year) Big O, Baylor, Duncan, Earl Monroe, Thurmond, The Admiral, Walt Frazier, Worthy, Arenas, Mutombo, Haywood, Dale Ellis

Thunder - Russell, Baylor, West, Barkley, Bob Cousy, Dominique Wilkins, Bob Pettit, Alonzo Mourning, Chris Paul, Sidney Moncrief, Dolph Schayes, Yao Ming
(Last Year) O'Neal, West, Pettit, Stockton, Drexler, Havlicek, McHale, Yao, Marion, Moncrief, BWallace, Dumars

Pest - Olajuwon, Shaq, Stockton, Dr.J, TMac, Wade, McHale, Alex English, Grant Hill, Arenas, Artis Gilmore, Spencer Haywood
(Last Year) Magic Johnson, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Kobe Bryant, Bob Mcadoo, Ron Artest, Dennis Rodman, Nate Archibald, Alonzo Mourning, Jerry Lucas, Alvin Robertson, Dennis Johnson

ReginaldLewis (played last year) - Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Elvin Hayes, Rick Barry, David Thompson, Allen Iverson, Bob Lanier, Marques Johnson, Alex English, Reggie Miller, Dave Bing

EMan - Big O, Moses, elvin hayes, kidd, Reggie Miller, Parish, James Worthy, Dennis Rodman, Richmond, Mullin, Larry Johnson, Baron Davis


My team only has a few changes.




The criteria for evaluation is as follows:
The factors determining how good a player is are:
1. Production of that player ie. Stats based but relevant to competition as well so Wilt Chamberlain's production, though incredible, would not have been so great in the current era but he is rated very highly because he produced so much still.
2. Length of high performance in career; So A guy like Bill Walton, though a great player, was only great for a few seasons and was beseiged by injuries that limited his career. He is rated quite highly but you only get a few good years out of him and not ten or more years like you do for someone like Magic Johnson, who was great for over a decade, every single year and did not miss much due to injury.
3. Attitude; This one is somewhat harder to scale but basically for a guy like Artest, he is a cancer to his teams a fair bit and tends to stuff up the chemistry quite a bit. He is talented but his attitude is a major factor as well.
4. Success; MVPs, individual awards and championships. Obviously some scrub that was twelveth man on the legendary Celtics teams that won eight straight championships is not rated higher than Karl Malone but the point here is what value did a player that won championships have in his team winning those championships. We all know Michael Jordan was by far the main reason the Bulls won so many championships and that is a big reason he is the best player ever.


Basically you go for the superstars, from whatever era but the key is to try and workout which stars are better ie. The older era players tend to be viewed as less talented as the modern day stars because obviously they were but we try to compare from era to era, so Bill Russell, though not as talented as David Robinson, was greater in his era than Robinson was in his, though not by far, but he was. Thus, Bill Russell is rated higher than the Admiral.

I hope everyone understands the criteria, it is not 100% calculatable and by that I mean it is not absolutely clear which superstars are better than others, but we try to use the above factors in rating them (we don't attribute a ranking for each player alltime but we can say pretty well how good a player is going by the criteria).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:27 am
migya wrote:The criteria for evaluation is as follows:
The factors determining how good a player is are:
1. Production of that player ie. Stats based but relevant to competition as well so Wilt Chamberlain's production, though incredible, would not have been so great in the current era but he is rated very highly because he produced so much still.
2. Length of high performance in career; So A guy like Bill Walton, though a great player, was only great for a few seasons and was beseiged by injuries that limited his career. He is rated quite highly but you only get a few good years out of him and not ten or more years like you do for someone like Magic Johnson, who was great for over a decade, every single year and did not miss much due to injury.
3. Attitude; This one is somewhat harder to scale but basically for a guy like Artest, he is a cancer to his teams a fair bit and tends to stuff up the chemistry quite a bit. He is talented but his attitude is a major factor as well.
4. Success; MVPs, individual awards and championships. Obviously some scrub that was twelveth man on the legendary Celtics teams that won eight straight championships is not rated higher than Karl Malone but the point here is what value did a player that won championships have in his team winning those championships. We all know Michael Jordan was by far the main reason the Bulls won so many championships and that is a big reason he is the best player ever.


Too complicated. I mean, it's not like a disagree, but some of those criteria cannot be applaid the same to all the players. For example, how do you apply lenght of career or success to players like Lebron, Dwight Howard and Chris Paul?.

Also, I don't think attitude matters much in a draft like this one.

I think I'll go with common sense. I'll post my overview of each team later (except mine, that is. It would be a biased one, so better save it).

Maybe we should also do a voting. Something like 10 points for the best, 7 for the second, 5 for the third, 4 for the 4th and so on (votes for our own not allowed, of course)...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:56 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:The criteria for evaluation is as follows:
The factors determining how good a player is are:
1. Production of that player ie. Stats based but relevant to competition as well so Wilt Chamberlain's production, though incredible, would not have been so great in the current era but he is rated very highly because he produced so much still.
2. Length of high performance in career; So A guy like Bill Walton, though a great player, was only great for a few seasons and was beseiged by injuries that limited his career. He is rated quite highly but you only get a few good years out of him and not ten or more years like you do for someone like Magic Johnson, who was great for over a decade, every single year and did not miss much due to injury.
3. Attitude; This one is somewhat harder to scale but basically for a guy like Artest, he is a cancer to his teams a fair bit and tends to stuff up the chemistry quite a bit. He is talented but his attitude is a major factor as well.
4. Success; MVPs, individual awards and championships. Obviously some scrub that was twelveth man on the legendary Celtics teams that won eight straight championships is not rated higher than Karl Malone but the point here is what value did a player that won championships have in his team winning those championships. We all know Michael Jordan was by far the main reason the Bulls won so many championships and that is a big reason he is the best player ever.


Too complicated. I mean, it's not like a disagree, but some of those criteria cannot be applaid the same to all the players. For example, how do you apply lenght of career or success to players like Lebron, Dwight Howard and Chris Paul?.



There can be a points system for each criterion I list above. It would likely not be perfect but no criteria system is.

Something like 1-10 scoring system for each category; So a 10 for Production of that player could be attributed to the elite, like Jordan, Chamberlain and so forth, players that produced alot stat wise. A player like McHale would get like a 7, as he did produce well, just not like the mentioned players.
This score for that particular category can be multiplied bby every other category, so a guy like Lebron, who gets 10 for Production of that player category, gets a fairly low score in the Length of high performance in career category because he has only been around for three years.
That would give a pretty good rating score for all the players
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