coltraning wrote:hindsight is 20-20. Owens was highly hyped at the time, so it was understandable that Nelson did it, but not a good move in retro. Of course 2 others you mentioned, owens for seikaly and webber for gugliotta looked awful at the time. best 2 trades I can recall ws doing in past 20 years have been BD for Speedy and the dungmurphy for Jackington...

I pretty much agree with coltraining. Hindsight in this case is definitely 20/20. Billy Owens at Syracuse was a 6'9" to everything type of player. he looked like the second coming of Magic Johnson. Billy could shoot with both hands ( neither to good, later discovered). he was a big body who could really handle the ball. The Warriors did have some success with Billy Owens. He was not the reason for the Warriors down fall. There is a lot of Billy Owens in Stephen Jackson.

32 wrote:Allow me to spoon-feed it to you, since you obvious need a clue here:

Dikembe Mutumbo is a 4-time Defensive Player of the Year. How often did he average over 10 rebounds and 3 blocks in his career? PRETTY FUCKIN OFTEN, if you check his stat's!

How the hell can you possibly claim that Allen Iverson 'made Mutumbo' better than he was when Dikembe was already a THREE TIME DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR (once in Denver, twice in Atlanta... not to mention the fourth one he picked up the year he went to the Finals with Iverson).

Pull your head out of ass, drazz. I understand you wanted to make waves with the big boys, but your puny dribble did little more than make you look ignorant. Allen Iverson is a ballhog who had a perfectly capable cast of characters playing next to him when he went to the NBA Finals. Dikembe Mutumbo, as the NBA's DPOY, was the best man possible to guard Shaq. That turned it into the Kobe versus AI show... and Iverson couldn't get the job done at all. He's a ballhog who managed to make his cast of blue-collar hall-of-famers (Tyrone Hill, Dikembe Mutumbo, ect) irrelevant.

Philly put a team around Iverson TOTALLY catered to his needs: they rebounded, played good defense, and let Iverson dribble the ball for 22 seconds on offense. And AI still couldn't get it done. QED, bitch.

... chubby for migya? Whose got the hard-on: the guy telling migya he's wrong or the guy rushing to his aid, ready to suck dick on command?

Wow, big and bold letters. I am truely cowered. (That means afraid, and I'll continue to explain the big words I use if you need them). But lets take a look at your assertations ('facts').

Mutumbo with 10 rebs and 3 blocks? I agree that's average for him. No debate. But, 14 points on 77% shooting in the playoffs? That's pretty remarkable, for anyone, and especially for Mutumbo. Great year for him there in Philly, with stats better than the last coupld of years for him. Isn't it at least possible that playing with Iverson help Mutumbo? That's a lot of double teams that don't happen down low because th ey are looking to trap AI on the arc.

"Make waves with the big boys?" You're a 'big boy'? There are definitely some on this board I respect, but I hate to tell you, you certainly are not one of them. Actually, I rather enjoyed that.

"makes players irrelevent." But in the same sentence, you taked about Mutumbo equalizing Shaq. How does that make him irrelevent? That's my point with your arguments, 32, you say everything both ways. To say that Mutumbo equalizes Shaq, which very few players can do or have ever done, certainly sounds like he is not irrelevent.

Chubby for Mig. Well, YOU are the one that replies to every one of his posts. He must make you hot. Chubby for AI. Well, this thread isn't even about AI, yet you have to bring him in.

As for defending mig, you again show your ability to completely ignore what is happening. I have not defended mig on this topic, nor or AI. I'm just tired of your BS attempts at logic.

32 wrote:

drazz wrote:Mutumbo with those stats in the playoffs? How often has he done that well? But he did it that well WITH Iverson.

I'm not even an Iverson fan, but damn, make up your mind man.

Allow me to spoon-feed it to you, since you obvious need a clue here:

Dikembe Mutumbo is a 4-time Defensive Player of the Year. How often did he average over 10 rebounds and 3 blocks in his career? PRETTY FUCKIN OFTEN, if you check his stat's!

How the hell can you possibly claim that Allen Iverson 'made Mutumbo' better than he was when Dikembe was already a THREE TIME DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR (once in Denver, twice in Atlanta... not to mention the fourth one he picked up the year he went to the Finals with Iverson).

Pull your head out of ass, drazz. I understand you wanted to make waves with the big boys, but your puny dribble did little more than make you look ignorant. Allen Iverson is a ballhog who had a perfectly capable cast of characters playing next to him when he went to the NBA Finals. Dikembe Mutumbo, as the NBA's DPOY, was the best man possible to guard Shaq. That turned it into the Kobe versus AI show... and Iverson couldn't get the job done at all. He's a ballhog who managed to make his cast of blue-collar hall-of-famers (Tyrone Hill, Dikembe Mutumbo, ect) irrelevant.

Philly put a team around Iverson TOTALLY catered to his needs: they rebounded, played good defense, and let Iverson dribble the ball for 22 seconds on offense. And AI still couldn't get it done. QED, bitch.

... chubby for migya? Whose got the hard-on: the guy telling migya he's wrong or the guy rushing to his aid, ready to suck dick on command?

Hey #32, besides being wrong on many things, I'm getting sick and tired of your bulshiit language!!!! If you persist in talking alot of shiit, I'll seriously consider throwing your hotheaded arse out of here! It has just happened too many times. Whether it is me or someone else you are arguing with, keep the insults to a minimum! You went overboard with this post!

I've said what I've needed to say. My opinion is that it was a terrible trade and that the people who believe it was not, I cannot understand why. My part is done with this thread...

But boy-oh-boy, this thread has certainly turned into an ol' fashion slobberknocker.

C'mon back TMC! Hurry back for Easter! I'm pretty sure the eggs will be dropping well far from the sky by the time he reads all these arguments.

I'll play commentator/mediator, drazz directed a gay themed insult to 32 that involved migya which migya ignored & gorgeously! complimented
migya then bold face reprimand's & threatens banishment on 32 for attacking drazz back & using "bulshiit language"....
OK so 32 the rule on the board is different than what I was taught & raised (Someone hit you, hit em' back harder) So either you have to strike 1'st or exaggerate your spelling like migya, fuk cunnnt...shiit arse...blow load biitch...

migya wrote:

drazz wrote:

32 wrote:
So, please, don't pretend that Mitch Richmond was incapable of leading a team to the playoffs... especially when you're bitching in other threads about Allen Iverson only having the likes of Dikembe Mutumbo, Keith Van Horn, and Eric Snow.

Dikembe Mutumbo's statline in the 2001 Playoffs reads as follows: 13.9 PPG, 13.7 RPG, 3.1 BPG, shooting 77.7% from the field. Real slouch he was, huh.

Jesus, 32, I realize you have a hard-on for both mig and Iverson, but make up your own mind. .

Said gorgeously!

O.G. Broe wrote:I'll play commentator/mediator, drazz directed a gay themed insult to 32 that involved migya which migya ignored & gorgeously! complimented
migya then bold face reprimand's & threatens banishment on 32 for attacking drazz back & using "bulshiit language"....
OK so 32 the rule on the board is different than what I was taught & raised (Someone hit you, hit em' back harder) So either you have to strike 1'st or exaggerate your spelling like migya, fuk cunnnt...shiit arse...blow load biitch...

migya wrote:

drazz wrote:

32 wrote:
So, please, don't pretend that Mitch Richmond was incapable of leading a team to the playoffs... especially when you're bitching in other threads about Allen Iverson only having the likes of Dikembe Mutumbo, Keith Van Horn, and Eric Snow.

Dikembe Mutumbo's statline in the 2001 Playoffs reads as follows: 13.9 PPG, 13.7 RPG, 3.1 BPG, shooting 77.7% from the field. Real slouch he was, huh.

Jesus, 32, I realize you have a hard-on for both mig and Iverson, but make up your own mind. .

Said gorgeously!

No, that's just you playing the giver, coming to the aid of your catcher Again, keep all of these "private" tendancies private

migya, once again showing what a just and fair moderator he is.

As for drazz' little response; once again, you need to READ my posts. Nowhere have I ever claimed that statistics tell the whole story. You're putting words in my mouth. In fact, I've gotten into debates with people like Pest about how effective statistics are (or ineffective, I should say). The fact that you're claiming that I fell on statistical evidence in a Harrington debate not only proves you are incorrect, but it exposes you as a liar as well.

If players could be "great" based on the requirement of averaging 30 points per game... fine, one could consider Allen Iverson to be "great". But a lot of people (myself included) think that a point guard needs to run the team. Needs to distribute the ball. Needs to put his teammates' offense before his own. A lot of people think that a point guard is the person who starts the offense; not dominates it. Allen Iverson is not a good point guard. He does not improve the offensive (or defensive) play of his teammates and his self-centered offensive orientation (which intrigues many) annoys me. A point guard choosing to shoot the ball instead of passing it is not a revolutionary, new, hybrid type of guard that we've never heard of before; it's a ballhog. Plain and simple. The guy who brings the ball up the floor should not also be dribbling it around for 20 seconds and shooting it the majority of the time. That's my position on Allen Iverson. That's why I believe he's an overrated player.

My points have been backed up with pure logic and presented statistics (statistics as evidence to prove my point; not to be the ultimate say of what is right and what is wrong). You, being petty, jumped into the conversation halfway in and mouthed off about something you had no clue about (oddly enough, something migya is prone to doing).

Now I have to exit this thread, since the 'fair and just moderator' has threatened to ban me for returning fire (and its not the first time he's threatened to abuse his power after chuckling at me getting binked on). Rejoyce in your quasi-victory. The power-drunk moderator has ruined yet another thread. Congrats migya.

Boo Hoo goes #32


As far as my hit back - I'm as much as a poster as anyone else and don't have to take shiit from anyone. As a moderator, I actually could threaten to ban anyone that threw insults at me and yet I don't. Things have to be fair and so anyone can retaliate, just as long as it isn't over the top in comparison to what was dished out to them and as long as it doesn't end up being a reaction that lasts 2 pages of constant posting of insults or thereabouts

This thread is just retarded. The part about Richmond and Owens (a top 5 in the WORST moves in team history, right there with Joe Smith and Joe Barely Cares) and the rest of it.

Is it so difficult to talk without throwing sh*t at each other?.

I'm tempted to move this whole thread to the private area... or even erase it completely.

TMC wrote:This thread is just retarded. The part about Richmond and Owens (a top 5 in the WORST moves in team history, right there with Joe Smith and Joe Barely Cares) and the rest of it.

Is it so difficult to talk without throwing sh*t at each other?.

I'm tempted to move this whole thread to the private area... or even erase it completely.

Erase it. The whole idea of this thread was moronic to begin with. Delete it.

Anyone is entitled to talk about subjects related to the team! This is a subject that everyone knows about and can discuss their view point! If some of the immature little crybabies don't like it, they don't have to take part!

... are you referring to yourself, after 10 different board members laughed at your idea and you scrambled to make a jumbled, half-assed response that really didn't respond to anybody's points...?

32 wrote:... are you referring to yourself, after 10 different board members laughed at your idea and you scrambled to make a jumbled, half-assed response that really didn't respond to anybody's points...?

It was in response to your stupid call for this thread to be deleted. Maybe your "ramblings" threads should be thrown in the trash as well. TMC really baited you in a way by saying that maybe it should be

migya wrote:Anyone is entitled to talk about subjects related to the team!

Yeah, I just can't see how anyone can defend the Richmond-for-Owens trade. It should be pretty clear that you don't trade an all star like Richmond unless you're getting Shaq... Even Nellie himself would say so.

migya wrote:

32 wrote:... are you referring to yourself, after 10 different board members laughed at your idea and you scrambled to make a jumbled, half-assed response that really didn't respond to anybody's points...?

It was in response to your stupid call for this thread to be deleted. Maybe your "ramblings" threads should be thrown in the trash as well. TMC really baited you in a way by saying that maybe it should be

Ramblings threads...?

You mean the old team reviews I made in mid-2006...? Go ahead, delete them. Who gives a ****? I haven't made a new one since April of '06... and nobody's responded to one of them for 11 months now. Ooooooh, way to threaten me by deleting one of my dead threads from a year ago.

Hey, while you're at it... why don't you threaten to delete TMC's "Riley Takes Over Heat" thread. Or pawno's old "Look-a-like" thread?

Even TMC thinks this trade is idiotic and he's one of the most open guys on the board about pretty much anything! Take a hint already, you clueless fool.