future w/o baron.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:15 pm
ok heres what we do... at where we draft we get the best gaurd available, then we get gerald wallace in a sign and trade for richardson... i think we'd be a better team as much as i love j rich, and charlotte gets the 2 gaurd they've been needin, to go with felton, morrison, may, okafor..
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:39 pm
ChronicallyInclined wrote:
JayPat wrote:Well if we can't get Horford in the draft, I say draft a PG and try to develop. Monta will never be a good PG.


what a joke of a post. monta is 21 2 years out of high school, and he's completely done a 180 as far as turnover to assist ratio from where he was toward the beginning of the year, and you want to say he doesnt even have a chance to be a good pg? he already is a good pg, all we have to do is wait for him to be great. baron is great, but he's never healthy so that kind of doesnt say much. sure we could draft another small player, but that doesnt mean our rebounding and low block problems will go away!


Not that Monta is not a great player, but he is not even a good PG. Why do you think our offense struggles so much when Baron is out? In the past 10 or so games, we've lost every single game when Monta starts at PG and/or is the main PG for the game. If he were even a good PG, he would have at least scratched out a few wins, even against shitty teams like Portland and New York.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:10 am
dareedle wrote:Great, now we have BD apologists that will put him next to Nash, Kidd and Isiah Thomas as the greatest point guard ever. Wake up Warrior fans, there is more to being great than talent and having a fricking PG lead the team in scoring. BD is not a great franchise PG for a lot of reasons, health, getting his mediocre club to the playoffs, shot selection, free throw percentage. Unfortunately, he is our only PG and our best shot for the playoffs this year and next, but it has been apparent to the entire league, he is a liability because of lack of conditioning, historical weight issues, and recurring injuries. For the number of playoff games, we have played with BD, I think our 17 and 18 mllion could be better spent on drafting young PG like Deron Williams that is getting a whopping 5 Million per and would actually be available to play in the final 20 games of the season.



:D

Well said! Baron CAN be a very good player but the flaws you brought up are glaring and are not the stuff of a franchise player, that's why the team hasn't been a real power in the nba because even if he only played 60-65 games, along with talents like JRich, the team would have done better than they have if Baron was a superstar, which is what a franchise player is. My problem is the fact he is injuryprone and gets paid so much money for what he gives. He is a top 5 PG but guys like Deron Williams, Mo Williams and Chris Paul are already at his level and will likely overtake him in the near future, all while getting paid less and playing more
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:12 am
ChronicallyInclined wrote:
JayPat wrote:Well if we can't get Horford in the draft, I say draft a PG and try to develop. Monta will never be a good PG.


what a joke of a post. monta is 21 2 years out of high school, and he's completely done a 180 as far as turnover to assist ratio from where he was toward the beginning of the year, and you want to say he doesnt even have a chance to be a good pg? he already is a good pg, all we have to do is wait for him to be great. baron is great, but he's never healthy so that kind of doesnt say much. sure we could draft another small player, but that doesnt mean our rebounding and low block problems will go away!



Right on the money! :D

Monta has come a long way this season and definately improved his TOs and his PG skills. He is so young and within a year or two he could well be a great PG!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:50 am
migya wrote:
dareedle wrote:Great, now we have BD apologists that will put him next to Nash, Kidd and Isiah Thomas as the greatest point guard ever. Wake up Warrior fans, there is more to being great than talent and having a fricking PG lead the team in scoring. BD is not a great franchise PG for a lot of reasons, health, getting his mediocre club to the playoffs, shot selection, free throw percentage. Unfortunately, he is our only PG and our best shot for the playoffs this year and next, but it has been apparent to the entire league, he is a liability because of lack of conditioning, historical weight issues, and recurring injuries. For the number of playoff games, we have played with BD, I think our 17 and 18 mllion could be better spent on drafting young PG like Deron Williams that is getting a whopping 5 Million per and would actually be available to play in the final 20 games of the season.



:D

Well said!

::lol: Man, if you only knew who you were agreeing with.

Does somebody want to explain to migya who dareedle is...?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:53 am
migya wrote:Well said! Baron CAN be a very good player but the flaws you brought up are glaring and are not the stuff of a franchise player, that's why the team hasn't been a real power in the nba because even if he only played 60-65 games, along with talents like JRich, the team would have done better than they have if Baron was a superstar, which is what a franchise player is. My problem is the fact he is injuryprone and gets paid so much money for what he gives. He is a top 5 PG but guys like Deron Williams, Mo Williams and Chris Paul are already at his level and will likely overtake him in the near future, all while getting paid less and playing more


baron CAN?? Mo Williams?? Deron Williams?? Chris Paul maybe...but c'mon

I always thought you were a pretty rational dude...but now, I'm not so sure.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:57 am
JayPat wrote:
ChronicallyInclined wrote:
JayPat wrote:Well if we can't get Horford in the draft, I say draft a PG and try to develop. Monta will never be a good PG.


what a joke of a post. monta is 21 2 years out of high school, and he's completely done a 180 as far as turnover to assist ratio from where he was toward the beginning of the year, and you want to say he doesnt even have a chance to be a good pg? he already is a good pg, all we have to do is wait for him to be great. baron is great, but he's never healthy so that kind of doesnt say much. sure we could draft another small player, but that doesnt mean our rebounding and low block problems will go away!


Not that Monta is not a great player, but he is not even a good PG. Why do you think our offense struggles so much when Baron is out? In the past 10 or so games, we've lost every single game when Monta starts at PG and/or is the main PG for the game. If he were even a good PG, he would have at least scratched out a few wins, even against shitty teams like Portland and New York.


agreed wholeheartedly- monta is FAAAR from good. he's a good/great scorer, but don't confuse that with running a team.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:46 am
aletha33 wrote:
migya wrote:Well said! Baron CAN be a very good player but the flaws you brought up are glaring and are not the stuff of a franchise player, that's why the team hasn't been a real power in the nba because even if he only played 60-65 games, along with talents like JRich, the team would have done better than they have if Baron was a superstar, which is what a franchise player is. My problem is the fact he is injuryprone and gets paid so much money for what he gives. He is a top 5 PG but guys like Deron Williams, Mo Williams and Chris Paul are already at his level and will likely overtake him in the near future, all while getting paid less and playing more


baron CAN?? Mo Williams?? Deron Williams?? Chris Paul maybe...but c'mon

I always thought you were a pretty rational dude...but now, I'm not so sure.



I suppose those 3 are not good PGs? :-s
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:56 am
Baron is clearly one of the best PG's in the game right now. Yes, Nash/Kidd are the top, but then there is a second tier, and Baron is definitely there.

And, its more than just stats. Baron is the only LEADER of the team. There is no one else on the team that can make everyone else play better, put forth more effort. Not Ellis, he's too young. Not Harrington, he's just not a leader. Not even JRich, who is maybe not vocal enough.

JRich might be the soul of the team; the guy who has been though all the years of crap. But, he doesn;t seem to elevate the team, not on the floor.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:08 am
migya wrote:
aletha33 wrote:
migya wrote:Well said! Baron CAN be a very good player but the flaws you brought up are glaring and are not the stuff of a franchise player, that's why the team hasn't been a real power in the nba because even if he only played 60-65 games, along with talents like JRich, the team would have done better than they have if Baron was a superstar, which is what a franchise player is. My problem is the fact he is injuryprone and gets paid so much money for what he gives. He is a top 5 PG but guys like Deron Williams, Mo Williams and Chris Paul are already at his level and will likely overtake him in the near future, all while getting paid less and playing more


baron CAN?? Mo Williams?? Deron Williams?? Chris Paul maybe...but c'mon

I always thought you were a pretty rational dude...but now, I'm not so sure.



I suppose those 3 are not good PGs? :-s


naw, that's not what im saying...well, mo william's a strech...but the rest are good, really good...but they're not at BD's level...

they're HEALTHIER...but that can't impact the game the way BD does.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:17 am
aletha33 wrote:
migya wrote:
aletha33 wrote:
migya wrote:Well said! Baron CAN be a very good player but the flaws you brought up are glaring and are not the stuff of a franchise player, that's why the team hasn't been a real power in the nba because even if he only played 60-65 games, along with talents like JRich, the team would have done better than they have if Baron was a superstar, which is what a franchise player is. My problem is the fact he is injuryprone and gets paid so much money for what he gives. He is a top 5 PG but guys like Deron Williams, Mo Williams and Chris Paul are already at his level and will likely overtake him in the near future, all while getting paid less and playing more


baron CAN?? Mo Williams?? Deron Williams?? Chris Paul maybe...but c'mon

I always thought you were a pretty rational dude...but now, I'm not so sure.



I suppose those 3 are not good PGs? :-s


naw, that's not what im saying...well, mo william's a strech...but the rest are good, really good...but they're not at BD's level...

they're HEALTHIER...but that can't impact the game the way BD does.

:D Beautifully said.

Put a healthy Baron Davis against a Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or Mo Williams and Baron will stomp them out every time. Hell, you can probably add every PG besides Steve Nash and Jason Kidd to that list.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:15 pm
sometimes i wonder if people actually watch baron play or if they're bitter because he's been hurt a lot. But if you watch the games, you can see what he brings. It's not just scoring, it's the way he scores at times. Sure he takes some dumb 3's, but at times it looks like he's the only one not scared to take it to the basket. He also has good vision,and i think that has rubbed off on j-rich... anybody notice how much better a passer
J-RICH has become?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:30 pm
Hell yeah!

I don't even remember Jason passing AT ALL last year... and suddenly he's got all these slick dimes that he's tossing!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:55 pm
I agree that Monte has a ways to go in his development at a PG. He has showed improvement but the effect on the team is night and day when he starts at PG vs BD.

However, I am not sure we have any choice but to develop him as a PG. I am not sure he could have a future at the 2 spot. The bigger,physical SG's would kill him (of course lets see them try to stay with his quickness on the other side) and I would worry about him breaking down physically.

While his quickness and fearlessness reminds me a lot of Iverson (who has made a nice little career for himself at the off guard despite his size), I dont think he has the durability factor AI has.

To be a good PG, there are so many subtelty's to the position. Things he will hopefully learn. No doubt he is great in the open court, a great finisher and can flat out score... but can he LEAD. Don't think we have much choice but to wait and see.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:37 pm
First, Ellis is not a point guard, he can guard a speedy point guard like Parker, but he is much better finishing on fast breaks and creating for himself at the rim off dribble penetration. Sort of Dwayne Wade with a lot of room for growth and improvement. Secondly, whether we like it or not, this entire roster is built around BD. Sending the much maligned Dunleavy to Indy left with absolutely 0 ball handlers when BD is on IR. Talentwise we should be in the money 6-8th seed, healthwise we are lucky to be a game out. For 25 Million in J-Rich and BD, (not mention bench warmer 8 Million Foyle) J-Rich and BD have had a injured plagued season. By comparison, Detroit is paying 27 Million for Rasheed, Tayshaun and Rip. Mullie has given Nellie enough talent to win, Nellie has the team within striking distance of post season but the players still have to rebound, defend, shoot high percentage shots and stay healthy.
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