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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:43 am
Same old Nelson shiit that is no longer effective and never was for this current team at least. Some success early on in the season yes but nothing more than 50% ball, not enough to call Nelson's system top grade and since things have gone down, it wasn't time that was needed to learn the system.

It will be seen next season if the team can play his style to success but there might be a revamp of the roster of sorts and so new players will come in that will likely have no experience with such a system of basketball and so it all starts over again with more chance of failure than success. Nelson was a great coach but this situation has been disappointing thus far
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:12 pm
Last night i saw a few spotlights from our game with the Bulls. All you wrote is true but i noticed some things my self. I saw a team with no will to fight, players just waiting for the game to end. Is it because they have no leader on the floor, a Lary Bird kind of player? Is it that the coach can't inspire them, or they are simply tired of playing to many minutes because of injuries and tired of loosing?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:16 pm
drazz wrote:--no defense. Of course, a lot of the play is individualized, especially when we play man defense. Nellie did try to minimize this, and would switch between man and zone early in the year, but now he relies on the zone too much. And he certainly does not seem to have taught it well. Miller for 45? Career day for Sefolosha? That means no adjustment from Nellie. (Yes, BD and SJax are some of our best, but we were still losing with them in the game.)

The defense was poor long before Nelson took the team over. Last season (and the year before that), our defense was absolutely abysmal. Now, at least we're forcing turnovers. We're still not a team capable of making a series of stops, but when the Warriors win the tempo battle they force a ton of turnovers (more than any other team in the league, I believe). You can credit that to Don Nelson. Prior to this season, the Warriors defense was middle-school-level (and that's being polite). Even though individual, man-to-man defense still isn't our strength (and never will be, with our current roster), I credit Nelson for at least giving us a system that plays to our strengths.

drazz wrote:--No game adjustment. The game plan does not seem to change based on opponent. Its just, "Go run." And, no half-time adjustment. Take the Bulls game again. Bulls up 4 at the half, then pull off a 33-11 3rd quarter, based on exploiting the weaknesses they have found, while the W's just continue to chuck the ball when they have no open break.

The Bulls game was primarily (if not purely) a fatigue issue. Jason Richardson, Monta Ellis, Kelenna Azuibuke, and Al Harrington all ran out of steam in the middle of the 3rd quarter. Usually, Nelson would be swapping subs throughout the game to prevent that, but he was missing 3 regular people from his rotation.

Nevertheless, I see your point... and I would argue that Nelson's goal would be to have the other team adjust to the Warriors' style. If Nelson slowed the game down to contain an inside force on the other team, the Warriors would sink fast. By keeping to his own scheme, Nelson's trying to win the tempo battle (which, ultimately, is what decides when the Warriors win or lose).

drazz wrote:--no half court offense. Sorry, can't play in the league without a half court offense. Mavs are a run team, but have a strong 1/2; same with the Suns. The only 1/2 play I have seen run regularly, is a pick and roll with Biedrins. Nice play, but its can't be the only thing. (Yes, BD back will help, but teh W's were not too successful here with him around either)

I don't know about that; the Warriors showed a ton of half-court offense in their 2 meetings earlier in the season against New Orleans and San Antonio. Jason Richardson is a half-court player; when they feed him the ball in a half court setting, it goes in. The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is Baron Davis being on the shelf. Monta Ellis, while improving, is not a PG yet... and if we put Sarunas out there, we abandon the running scheme that makes us so dangerous. Nelson likes the pick&roll, the screen&roll, and isolation plays in the post (usually, to Jackson, Richardson, or Davis).

But, other than that, what else could the Warriors run? Their big man isn't strong enough to run a triangle offense, they don't have a stud that they can ride, and most of their big men aren't offensively savy. This team is built around 2 people: Baron Davis, the distributor, and Jason Richardson, the scorer. So far this year, we have yet to really see those two lock into each other (the way they did prior to this season).

drazz wrote:--erratic substitutions. Some days, Nellie only seems to play the starters, leaving them to run out of gas, and almost never subbing. Other days, he seems to throw new guys in with no thought to the combos on the floor. I cannot determine any kind of pattern he might be using, other than who he has friendly feeling for that day. (YEs, injuries dictate SOME of this.)

The only time I've seen Nelson purely ride his starters is when he's limping from injury. Other than that, Nelson has done an excellent job this season of riding the hot hand. How many times has Matt Barnes led the team in scoring? Or Kelenna Azuibuke? Or Mickael Pietrus? Or Monta Ellis? Nelson's been great about making sure the guy on fire is taking his shots; we don't have a LeBron, Arenas, Dwayne Wade type guy who consistently leads us in scoring (or, at least, until Richardson came back, we didn't).

drazz wrote:--degrading players. I have NEVER seen a coach insult his players as much as Nellie. It CAN be a motivational tool when used right, but we hve a very young team, and I see the verbal abuse effect them. ("Azibuke? I thought Mullin asked if I wanted a sambuko." What a way to introduce one of the hottest D-league players to your team and the NBA.

Come on, that Azuibuke line was purely a joke. He was trying to get a rise out of the media and it worked.

So far this year, Nelson's insulted Dunleavy, Murphy, and Diogu the most... and guess what happened to them? He sat Matt Barnes and snapped him out of his funk, he's praised Baron Davis the entire season, he's encouraged Monta and Biedrins non-stop, and he's always talking about how impressive he thinks Pietrus is. Right now, the only player on the team who could POSSIBLY be seen in Nelly's dog house is Patrick O'Bryant... other than that, he's not insulting anybody anymore!

drazz wrote:--no energy. Nellie looks dead, or dead drunk. He doesn't energize the players; doesn't show any sense of urgency during the game. Ever see him get a technical? Plenty of coaches will do so to get the palyers motivated.

Nelson's off the bench all the time during the game; at least 10-fold from what Montgomery was. And he's about 20 years older than Mike.

True, he's not gonna be as rabid as he used to be, but he's 67 years old. Don Nelson's still got gas left in the tank (you can hear him yelling pretty much every game); I don't think his energy will become an issue until at least next season.

drazz wrote:Now, I had high hopes when I heard he was taking over the team. Maybe he hasn't had the time to work with the players the way he wants, as he was hired late in the summer. Clearly, he has not had a full team the entire season, and that makes getting the players to work together difficult. But, it seems pretty clear to me that his coaching style is NOT helping the team. Therefore, he is one of the problems.

I don't think you can say his coaching style isn't helping the team; he's growing our talent (which Monty NEVER did), he's teaching our players a different way to execute, and he's clearly got more control than any coach we've had since him. Reserve judgement on Nelson until the season's over; we're still in the 8th seed hunt, but everyone's panicing because we're on a slide. Don't trip until May; then we'll see whats up.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:03 pm
Alright 32, I see alot of what you are saying, But I don't think our two trains of thought are seperate. There are plenty of issues. I'm just saying that Nellie is not making it better. I am hoping that more time with a single coach will bring the W's together. We have not had a good, dependable coach since....? So, I'm not comparing Nellie to our last couple of coaches.

But, this year, even among the injuries and such, Nellie has not been a positive in my book. In all, I don't think Nellie or Nellie ball are what the W's need at this point.

In terms of simply coahing, we need somewhat that can develop the young team we have, bring out their potential. I don't see that in Nellie. Yes, i realize he is calling out players, and the Az comment was meant to be funny, but tell that to a first year player who fought out of the D-league. Counter-productive in this case. Yes, Ellis and Biedrins have become much more than they were last year, but is that because of Nellie's training? Ellis, I think was always going to be a good player, just needed minutes. Biedrins has developed with game time, and he got that because there is no other center on the team (Foyle, ha.)

In terms of game plan, I just don't think we can put together a running game. A running team needs not just the ability to run, which we have, but the ability to create fast breaks; through steals and rebounds. Steals are up, but rebounds are horrid.

Nellie and Nellie ball just are not a fit here, now.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:22 pm
I think we have to be patient with Nellie. He's not a magician that can turn a team around in his first season. His record during his first two years in Dallas was terrible... and we all know what happened since then. We should, at least, give him the next season before start calling for his head.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:34 pm
Last post came out very critical of Nellie, moreso than I intended. Another year to work together, maybe a few palyer moves, a cohesive game plan coming into focus could make a huge difference.

I'm not called for Nellie to leave, I'm just not sold on him for this team, for this year.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:14 pm
Well, Nelson's effects aren't mean to be a one-year deal.

It took him YEARS to make Dallas one of the elite teams in the league. Dallas is set to be contenders for the next 5 or 6 years thanks to Nelly (and, had they resigned Nash -like Nelly wanted- and not grabbed Dampier, they'd have a ring by now).

I think Don Nelson will make this team dangerous by the end of his deal. Right now, you can't deny there's been improvement over last year's team. Even if the record fails to currently show it, there's no denying that we're better off THIS year than LAST year.

If Nelson has enough gas in the tank to live out his 3 year deal, we'll be in good shape. But axing the guy too soon would be like how the Knicks fired Larry Brown prematurely; these things take time.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:31 pm
I agree, however we should have a coaching plan for if Nellie's health gives out and he could no longer coach. It seems like Smart might be the one, but we'd be screwed if Nellie gives out and we have nowhere to go.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:49 pm
TMC wrote:I think we have to be patient with Nellie. He's not a magician that can turn a team around in his first season. His record during his first two years in Dallas was terrible... and we all know what happened since then. We should, at least, give him the next season before start calling for his head.



Nelson is only signed for three seasons total so what longterm situation is this! This was supposed to work now as this team was supposedly built for Nelson and he was suppose to come in and turn it around immediately and get the team to the playoffs this season without much trouble! DIDN'T HAPPEN and his style seems somewhat ineffective and not what it will take to make the team a winner by a long shot. Ellie was the guy I liked and now he may never be attained if Mullin wanted him. Fratello seems to be a good coach and maybe Mullin should turn to him next season if he is still available
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:03 am
JayPat wrote:I agree, however we should have a coaching plan for if Nellie's health gives out and he could no longer coach. It seems like Smart might be the one, but we'd be screwed if Nellie gives out and we have nowhere to go.


Yeah, Smart seems to be the leading candidate... but I'd hate to see him become the head coach. He had a chance a few years ago with the Cavs and he sucked as bad as any coach I have ever seen.

migya wrote:Nelson is only signed for three seasons total so what longterm situation is this! This was supposed to work now as this team was supposedly built for Nelson and he was suppose to come in and turn it around immediately and get the team to the playoffs this season without much trouble! DIDN'T HAPPEN and his style seems somewhat ineffective and not what it will take to make the team a winner by a long shot. Ellie was the guy I liked and now he may never be attained if Mullin wanted him. Fratello seems to be a good coach and maybe Mullin should turn to him next season if he is still available


You know that I'd love to see Fratello coaching the Ws... but he wouldn't be able to win with this roster. If the team decides to hire him, we'll have to change 3/4 of the roster (which may not be a bad thing, mind you).
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:28 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:Nelson is only signed for three seasons total so what longterm situation is this! This was supposed to work now as this team was supposedly built for Nelson and he was suppose to come in and turn it around immediately and get the team to the playoffs this season without much trouble! DIDN'T HAPPEN and his style seems somewhat ineffective and not what it will take to make the team a winner by a long shot. Ellie was the guy I liked and now he may never be attained if Mullin wanted him. Fratello seems to be a good coach and maybe Mullin should turn to him next season if he is still available


You know that I'd love to see Fratello coaching the Ws... but he wouldn't be able to win with this roster. If the team decides to hire him, we'll have to change 3/4 of the roster (which may not be a bad thing, mind you).



The trade I proposed for gasol would trade at least a third of the roster and would get Gasol, making the team similar to the one he had in the Grizz, only younger and with better potential
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