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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:50 pm
uptempo wrote:
32 wrote:
uptempo wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:...However, with POB...What is his strong point? Does he have anything to offer other than height?


Yes, he's not Foyle!

Not only that; he's a great learner. O'Bryant might become the most offensive savy center we've had in a long time. If the Warriors could bring back a guy like Nate Thurmond to tutor him on some offensive moves, it'd be great. He's already a shot-blocker... and his D-League stats are showing vast improvements in rebounding. That's good enough for me... for now.


Agreed.

Also, OG Broe had described on another earlier thread how POB looked good this summer running the floor.


Ha, ha. I look pretty good running the floor too. But can he play basketball at an NBA level? Look, this kid was not dominate in college. I never heard of him in high school. When Tyson Cjandler and Eddie Curry were making all the MacDonald all-american team, where was this 7'0" POB? I'm not sayin this kid is a bust, but I'm not about to give him the benefit of the doubt either. Bill Parcells once said "Potential menas nothing". The Warriors can't afford potential. They need a good big man NOW. Potential has got us looking at the playoffs for the last 12 years. By the way, was any other team interesed in POB at draft time? What was his pre-draft analysis by the experts? It's embarassing to have a lottery pick that couldn't even make the roster. When was the last time that happened? Someone please answer these questions, I really hope he turns out OK. Thanks. :agrue:
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:59 pm
ReginaldLewis wrote:Ha, ha. I look pretty good running the floor too. But can he play basketball at an NBA level?

That's the big question. His pluses include being able to run with the smaller guys, agility for a 7-footer, blocking a ton of shots, and learning extremely well (and fast). The knocks on O'Bryant are that he's too skinny and his offense game isn't good enough yet. You be the judge. Right now, your guess is as good as anyone elses. If Patrick O'Bryant was a lock for the NBA level, he'd have never been demoted to D-League. He definately needed some time to brush up his skills... but, luckily, O'Bryant isn't one of those players (like Pietrus) whose comes into the league and never improves.

ReginaldLewis wrote:Look, this kid was not dominate in college. I never heard of him in high school. When Tyson Cjandler and Eddie Curry were making all the MacDonald all-american team, where was this 7'0" POB? I'm not sayin this kid is a bust, but I'm not about to give him the benefit of the doubt either.

It's true; O'Bryant didn't flash dominance until his final year in college. But, when he did, it was amazing. O'Bryant came back from a suspension (he accepted money from his job that he didn't work for, or something) and went on an 8-game tear, averaging something crazy like 20 PPG, 18 RPG, and 6 BPG. That's major league potential, if you ask me. Which brings me to...

ReginaldLewis wrote:Bill Parcells once said "Potential menas nothing". The Warriors can't afford potential. They need a good big man NOW. Potential has got us looking at the playoffs for the last 12 years.

Potential is also what landed us Monta Ellis in the 2nd round. Ike Diogu's potential pushed the deal through with Indiana (and now we've got Harrington and Jackson, instead of DunMurphy). Nobody else saw much potential in Andris Biedrins, but Mullin made him a 1st round pick and now he looks amazing.

It's true, you can't bank on potential... but when it comes together, it's sweet. Chris Mullin, thus far, has done a good job of drafting players with major potential who fill out, rather than busts (sans, perhaps, Pietrus).

ReginaldLewis wrote:By the way, was any other team interesed in POB at draft time? What was his pre-draft analysis by the experts?

Yes, O'Bryant was projected as a Top 10 lottery pick.

There were 3 coveted big men in the draft: LaMarcus Alderige, Tyrus Thomas, and Andrea Bargnani. They all went in the Top 5. After those three were picked, there was a giant gap between the next best big men... and it included Shelden Williams, Sene, and Patrick O'Bryant. As far as centers go, Patrick O'Bryant was rated higher than any other 5 in the draft, according to most experts.

ReginaldLewis wrote:It's embarassing to have a lottery pick that couldn't even make the roster. When was the last time that happened?

The D-League hasn't been around long enough to make a statement like that.

If D-League was around 5 years ago, Andris Biedrins, Mickael Pietrus, Monta Ellis, and Ike Diogu would all have found their way down there. Rookies without roles go to D-League now. It doesn't mean that they don't have any talent; its just a way to keep them developing.

Previously, a player couldn't be signed to an NBA team while playing in the D-League. Now, pro teams can send down their projects. This is a new thing (I believe, started in the past 2 seasons).
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:48 pm
I believe POB is here for emergency situations only (e.g., foul trouble to Biedrins, Powell, or Foyle, or injuries [God, I hope no more])--and where we need immediate replacement.

Obviously he has improved significantly (great news), thus justifying his call-up. And in being here, he can practice with the team, so he's not completely clueless, if thrust into a game. As for his repertoire, 32 already covered that.

But on the PG note, Monta is playing it and has done a good job as of late. But, man, S-Jax, can this guy pass or what, not to mention handle the ball? He's definitely a capable playmaker, and I'd like to see more alley-oops to J-Rich, now that he's back.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:51 pm
If D-League was around 5 years ago, Andris Biedrins, Mickael Pietrus, Monta Ellis, and Ike Diogu would all have found their way down there. Rookies without roles go to D-League now. It doesn't mean that they don't have any talent; its just a way to keep them developing.

Previously, a player couldn't be signed to an NBA team while playing in the D-League. Now, pro teams can send down their projects. This is a new thing (I believe, started in the past 2 seasons).[/quote]

Which ofcourse could have put Monta down there as a rook. He's only a sophomore remember :-) That being said I totally agree with you. I think a lot of players that have turned out great in the past now would serve some time in the D-League. For the good of both the team and the player.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:48 pm
POB could be sent down again. Nelson said that he was crazy to think POB could do anything yet because he's only a rookie and that next year should be the year he gets to use him more. Couldn't find the CCT small article on that, but that was as close as I could get.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:30 pm
I thought Nelson said that BEFORE sending him down the first time...?

I know, for sure, Don Nelson's spoke giddily about getting O'Bryant back on the roster, in light of his recent tear on the D-League.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:37 am
... Although rookie center Patrick O'Bryant will be with the team through Monday at a minimum, don't bother resurrecting those dreams of a "twin towers" scheme with Andris Biedrins sliding over from center to power forward. "That was just me being stupid," coach Don Nelson said of his training-camp talk about pairing his two youngest players in the paint. "I thought we might have had a special guy (in O'Bryant), but he's just a rookie. I don't see that happening this year."


There it is. Saw that in Thursday's issue of the CCT.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:35 am
32 wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:By the way, was any other team interesed in POB at draft time? What was his pre-draft analysis by the experts?

Yes, O'Bryant was projected as a Top 10 lottery pick.

There were 3 coveted big men in the draft: LaMarcus Alderige, Tyrus Thomas, and Andrea Bargnani. They all went in the Top 5. After those three were picked, there was a giant gap between the next best big men... and it included Shelden Williams, Sene, and Patrick O'Bryant. As far as centers go, Patrick O'Bryant was rated higher than any other 5 in the draft, according to most experts.


Uh... no. POB was a borderline first rounder til last year's tournament. We even worked him out for the first time THE DAY BEFORE THE DRAFT.

It was a desperation pick. He may pan out, but don't say he was a highly touted prospect.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:52 am
TMC wrote:
32 wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:By the way, was any other team interesed in POB at draft time? What was his pre-draft analysis by the experts?

Yes, O'Bryant was projected as a Top 10 lottery pick.

There were 3 coveted big men in the draft: LaMarcus Alderige, Tyrus Thomas, and Andrea Bargnani. They all went in the Top 5. After those three were picked, there was a giant gap between the next best big men... and it included Shelden Williams, Sene, and Patrick O'Bryant. As far as centers go, Patrick O'Bryant was rated higher than any other 5 in the draft, according to most experts.

It was a desperation pick. He may pan out, but don't say he was a highly touted prospect.


So was hiring Nelson, which happened because Mullin could not deliver on his promise to make an off season trade/acquisition of a big man.

Some lessens to be learned from all this: Even if we go back to the TMC years, what becomes quite evident is that it is much better to draft the best player rather than just drafting for need. and Foyle is awful.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:28 am
uptempo wrote:
TMC wrote:
32 wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:By the way, was any other team interesed in POB at draft time? What was his pre-draft analysis by the experts?

Yes, O'Bryant was projected as a Top 10 lottery pick.

There were 3 coveted big men in the draft: LaMarcus Alderige, Tyrus Thomas, and Andrea Bargnani. They all went in the Top 5. After those three were picked, there was a giant gap between the next best big men... and it included Shelden Williams, Sene, and Patrick O'Bryant. As far as centers go, Patrick O'Bryant was rated higher than any other 5 in the draft, according to most experts.

It was a desperation pick. He may pan out, but don't say he was a highly touted prospect.


So was hiring Nelson, which happened because Mullin could not deliver on his promise to make an off season trade/acquisition of a big man.

Some lessens to be learned from all this: Even if we go back to the TMC years, what becomes quite evident is that it is much better to draft the best player rather than just drafting for need. and Foyle is awful.



Unless there is no decent player to cover a need, you draft for need! O'bryant isn't great yet but he doesn't have to be, just decent. Next season will be big for him because if he doesn't do well with his opportunities, Mullin may have to shop him for a decent Center backup. The team does not need a superstar, just very good role players
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
migya wrote:Unless there is no decent player to cover a need, you draft for need!


:scratch:

Where did you get that one?. From Isiah's "How to screw a NBA franchise from inside" handbook? :mrgreen:

Drafting for need never works. Never... And drafting for potential barely does. It's always better to play it safe and draft talent, even if it's for a position in which you don't need much help. May the best player keep that spot... and then you can trade the other for need.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:48 am
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migya wrote:Unless there is no decent player to cover a need, you draft for need!


:scratch:

Where did you get that one?. From Isiah's "How to screw a NBA franchise from inside" handbook? :mrgreen:

Drafting for need never works. Never... And drafting for potential barely does. It's always better to play it safe and draft talent, even if it's for a position in which you don't need much help. May the best player keep that spot... and then you can trade the other for need.


Drafting talent, regardless of position, makes the most sense. If the team needs a big man and the choice is between a project big man and an excellent guard, it is better to draft the guard. In a way, the team with its veterans, is loaded at the shooting guard and small forward positions. Perhaps there is a possibilty to move some of the pieces along with our #1 to get that complimentary big man who can fit into Nelson's style.

In a way, getting rid of Ike was a great move for this franchise. He, Ike, would have never fit in with a Nelson-coached team. It's too bad that Mullin could not have gotten rid of Foyle, too.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:33 am
TMC wrote:
32 wrote:
ReginaldLewis wrote:By the way, was any other team interesed in POB at draft time? What was his pre-draft analysis by the experts?

Yes, O'Bryant was projected as a Top 10 lottery pick.

There were 3 coveted big men in the draft: LaMarcus Alderige, Tyrus Thomas, and Andrea Bargnani. They all went in the Top 5. After those three were picked, there was a giant gap between the next best big men... and it included Shelden Williams, Sene, and Patrick O'Bryant. As far as centers go, Patrick O'Bryant was rated higher than any other 5 in the draft, according to most experts.


Uh... no. POB was a borderline first rounder til last year's tournament. We even worked him out for the first time THE DAY BEFORE THE DRAFT.

It was a desperation pick. He may pan out, but don't say he was a highly touted prospect.

Tell me which center in the draft was rated higher than O'Bryant...?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:38 am
32 wrote:Tell me which center in the draft was rated higher than O'Bryant...?


Come on. The fact that he's the best center of a draft with no good centers doesn't mean he was a great prospect. He was just the one that sucked the least.

It's like saying a team is the best bad team of the league. That team still sucks.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:48 pm
I didn't say O'Bryant was a great prospect; I said he was the best center in the draft. High-risk, high-reward players are rarely amazing prospects because of the chance they won't pan out.
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