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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:23 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Biedrins was a VERY RARE exception who had amazing athleticism from the start and showed flashes of brilliance. POB is in the D league, which nobody has ever successfully come back from (we have the D-league MVP devin brown on our team... oh wait, we cut him) and has shown nothing but height and hype. I won't declare him a bust yet but I certainly don't expect him to ever do anything


I agree with pest. Plus, I don't remember anyone talking this way about Biedrins. Complaint last year was that Monty never gave Biedrins a chance. POB got a chance and has shown nothing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:43 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Biedrins was a VERY RARE exception who had amazing athleticism from the start and showed flashes of brilliance. POB is in the D league, which nobody has ever successfully come back from (we have the D-league MVP devin brown on our team... oh wait, we cut him) and has shown nothing but height and hype. I won't declare him a bust yet but I certainly don't expect him to ever do anything


Hasn't the D league been around for one and a half seasons? As farmer teams for the pros. Before that I don't think teams sent players there much. I think it's a bit early to declare every person who's been sent there a bust.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:45 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
I heard the same things said about Todd Fuller refering to POB. "has a reputation for improving every year." Fuller impoved evey sesaon from his sophomore through junior year, got to the pros and bust. Can anyone tell me of any player in the NBA that was a bust for 3 or 4 years and then became a significant player? For the most parteither you are a player or you're not. Fatting up a tall guy does not automatically make him a good player. POB showed absolutely nothing while he was here. I didn't see anything to work with but height.

I totally agree with you. Jermaine O'neal is the only good player ever to not show even flashes of anything early on


Can't remember anyone raving too much about Nash his first couple of seasons. What about Chauncey?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:46 pm
cladden wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
I heard the same things said about Todd Fuller refering to POB. "has a reputation for improving every year." Fuller impoved evey sesaon from his sophomore through junior year, got to the pros and bust. Can anyone tell me of any player in the NBA that was a bust for 3 or 4 years and then became a significant player? For the most parteither you are a player or you're not. Fatting up a tall guy does not automatically make him a good player. POB showed absolutely nothing while he was here. I didn't see anything to work with but height.

I totally agree with you. Jermaine O'neal is the only good player ever to not show even flashes of anything early on


Can't remember anyone raving too much about Nash his first couple of seasons. What about Chauncey?


I guess Chauncey wasn't that bad in his early years.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:52 pm
cladden wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Biedrins was a VERY RARE exception who had amazing athleticism from the start and showed flashes of brilliance. POB is in the D league, which nobody has ever successfully come back from (we have the D-league MVP devin brown on our team... oh wait, we cut him) and has shown nothing but height and hype. I won't declare him a bust yet but I certainly don't expect him to ever do anything


Hasn't the D league been around for one and a half seasons? As farmer teams for the pros. Before that I don't think teams sent players there much. I think it's a bit early to declare every person who's been sent there a bust.

try 6 years. And the best player in those 6 years is marcus fizer.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:55 pm
cladden wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
I heard the same things said about Todd Fuller refering to POB. "has a reputation for improving every year." Fuller impoved evey sesaon from his sophomore through junior year, got to the pros and bust. Can anyone tell me of any player in the NBA that was a bust for 3 or 4 years and then became a significant player? For the most parteither you are a player or you're not. Fatting up a tall guy does not automatically make him a good player. POB showed absolutely nothing while he was here. I didn't see anything to work with but height.

I totally agree with you. Jermaine O'neal is the only good player ever to not show even flashes of anything early on


Can't remember anyone raving too much about Nash his first couple of seasons. What about Chauncey?

Nash contributed whenever he got in the game his first two years, he was just stuck behind J Kidd and Kevin Johnson. Plus he proved himself in college. If POB were stuck behind Shaq and Mutumbo and had dominated more than four games in college we wouldn't be complaining

And billups was a decent contributor from the start
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:56 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
cladden wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Biedrins was a VERY RARE exception who had amazing athleticism from the start and showed flashes of brilliance. POB is in the D league, which nobody has ever successfully come back from (we have the D-league MVP devin brown on our team... oh wait, we cut him) and has shown nothing but height and hype. I won't declare him a bust yet but I certainly don't expect him to ever do anything


Hasn't the D league been around for one and a half seasons? As farmer teams for the pros. Before that I don't think teams sent players there much. I think it's a bit early to declare every person who's been sent there a bust.

try 6 years. And the best player in those 6 years is marcus fizer.


But it wasn't a farmer league with dedicated teams for the pro-clubs until 2005/2006 and I don't think people used it in the same way before that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:32 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Biedrins was a VERY RARE exception who had amazing athleticism from the start and showed flashes of brilliance. POB is in the D league, which nobody has ever successfully come back from (we have the D-league MVP devin brown on our team... oh wait, we cut him) and has shown nothing but height and hype. I won't declare him a bust yet but I certainly don't expect him to ever do anything

Azebuke came out of D-League and looks like a steal.

Besides; the D-League is WAY too new to be labeled like that yet. In the old days, big men had to develop in limited time off the bench for their first few seasons. Now, the D-League allows them full-time minutes to speed up their development. It's a new science, really. So I don't think we can shut down the D-League idea yet.

I'm with you; I'm not gonna say if he's a bust or a good pick yet because, frankly, we haven't seen enough of him. In a season or two, we can evaluate. Until then, its just rumor.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:59 am
#32 wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Biedrins was a VERY RARE exception who had amazing athleticism from the start and showed flashes of brilliance. POB is in the D league, which nobody has ever successfully come back from (we have the D-league MVP devin brown on our team... oh wait, we cut him) and has shown nothing but height and hype. I won't declare him a bust yet but I certainly don't expect him to ever do anything

Azebuke came out of D-League and looks like a steal.

Besides; the D-League is WAY too new to be labeled like that yet. In the old days, big men had to develop in limited time off the bench for their first few seasons. Now, the D-League allows them full-time minutes to speed up their development. It's a new science, really. So I don't think we can shut down the D-League idea yet.

I'm with you; I'm not gonna say if he's a bust or a good pick yet because, frankly, we haven't seen enough of him. In a season or two, we can evaluate. Until then, its just rumor.


True but we can say that it's not looking hopeful.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:39 am
I don't know. If the guy was a legitimate lottery pick, wouldn't you think he would be good enough to make an NBA roster? Especially with a perenial doormat like the Warriors? Also, if the guy is a lottery pick, wouldn't you think he would sort of dominate these guys who probably will never make it to the NBA? To not make your mark your fist year in the NBA is somewhat aceptable, but to not make a splash in the D-League and you are a 7'0" lottery pick is embarassing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:56 am
C'mon, if the D-League had been tied to the NBA for longer than the last CBA (which is about 1.5 years old) the following players would have been sent down:

From the W's:
Andris Biedrins
Monta Ellis

Other Names:
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Tracy McGrady
Jermaine O'Neal
Tyson Chandler
Joe Johnson
Boris Diaw


I don't see any of these guys as busts (save for maybe Chandler) and they ALL would have been sent to the D-League had it been around for them. It's way too early to jump to conclusions with POB just because he was sent down. He could still be a huge bust or he could turn into the best player of the draft - you just don't know yet. Personally I think he will turn out to be a very average center in due time. It's a different kind of system now with the D-League and teams are still figuring out how to use it properly, and with which type of players to send down.


And as far as people talking down on AB last season - it happened. I remember it because I've been on the AB wagon since his draft day and it bothered me then. It wasn't the big names on the board, but there was a noticeable amount of Latvian hate. I wish I had taken names.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:07 pm
Patrick O'Bryant is a perfect example of a lot of things that are wrong with GM's in the NBA. Who had heard of this guy before the NCAA tournament? Very few, if anyone. He had a couple above average games in the NCAA tournament and he became a lottery pick.

He was not all All Missouri Valley first team from what I remember and even in Bradley's loss to a more athletic Memphis team he was outplayed by the smaller, quicker Memphis bigs. I remember watching him and saying to myself that this guy had no business even thinking about turning pro and if he did, he would be a bust.

The bottom line is that all too often in this day and age, GM's are selecting players based on potential rather than actual ability on the court. If you look at the first round of last season's draft and other season as well, you will find project after project after project. Here are just a few of the many:

Saer Sene
Ryan Hollins
Josh Boone
Oleksiy Pecherov
Hilton Armstrong
Tyrus Thomas
Andrea Bargnani

Those are just first rounders who will have little to no impact on their teams this season. That is not to say that one or two of these players may turn out to be good, but the draft these days is a crap shoot and getting a lottery pick in some drafts is the same as having a late first round or even second round pick.

Remember 7-15 years ago when a lottery pick meant a team was getting an impact player that played right away? Those days seem to be over. Whether it has been the influx of high school and young kids or the foreigners coming into the NBA, the lottery is not what it used to be.

Perhaps with the rules changes and high schoolers having to play at least one season in college, we will see better, more talented draft classes over the next few seasons. I hope that is the case.

Back to POB.....Mullin has not done that bad in the draft, but he obviously did not think Biedrins would develop as he has or he would not have drafted O'Bryant.

I do not think POB will amount to much, if anything in this league. He seems to have slow feet, little quickness and is not very aggressive on the block. I hope he proves me wrong, but to me this was a wasted pick.

Sorry for the rant and long post.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:08 pm
Thunder wrote:And as far as people talking down on AB last season - it happened. I remember it because I've been on the AB wagon since his draft day and it bothered me then. It wasn't the big names on the board, but there was a noticeable amount of Latvian hate. I wish I had taken names.


I've got the feeling that that "Latvian hate" (sounds like a title for a pretty awful movie, btw) was more directed towards Monty for not playing him than Biedrins... I mean, they sure wanted to see him do well, and AB's main problem was lack of minutes.

But it's noticeable that none of them have posted this season so far...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:12 pm
ChicagoTom wrote:Patrick O'Bryant is a perfect example of a lot of things that are wrong with GM's in the NBA. Who had heard of this guy before the NCAA tournament? Very few, if anyone. He had a couple above average games in the NCAA tournament and he became a lottery pick.


You know, call it a hunch, but I think that Mully wasn't sure of who to pick... and took the old saying of "in case of doubt, go tall".

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:13 pm
TMC wrote:
Thunder wrote:And as far as people talking down on AB last season - it happened. I remember it because I've been on the AB wagon since his draft day and it bothered me then. It wasn't the big names on the board, but there was a noticeable amount of Latvian hate. I wish I had taken names.


I've got the feeling that that "Latvian hate" (sounds like a title for a pretty awful movie, btw) was more directed towards Monty for not playing him than Biedrins... I mean, they sure wanted to see him do well, and AB's main problem was lack of minutes.

But it's noticeable that none of them have posted this season so far...


Would you also say that Ike's main problem is also a lack of minutes?
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