#32 wrote:coltraning wrote:32, that's a red herring. Latrell Sprewell? please - other than 1 comment from Nelson, there has been zero indication of any bad attitude by Ike. I would like to see some evidence before labeling Ike a malcontent. If anyone has displayed bitchy and moany personality it has been Dung, and I don't see him being analogized to Spree. (Btw, there were numerous reports as to Spree's vagrant psyche as early as his rookie year.)
What we do know is that nelson has had a series of conflicts with various personalities over the years, including being the only coach who had anything bad to say about Ewing (a cast that included Riley, Hubie Brown and jeff Van Gundy). I think it highly likely that Ike's "moping and complaining" would have surfaced before, whereas from marciulonis through Ewing, not to mention his holding Cohan up for millions, Nelson has a history of irascibility, putting players in the doghouse, playing favorites, and not liking big men who play a low post game (see manute and ewing shooting 3s).
I have watched Ike like a hawk, cause I think he is talented, plays with great spirit and has gotten a raw deal. As opposed to Dung, from whom I have witnessed petulant behavior on numerous occasions, I have never seen it from Ike on the court.
The fundamental reality is, Ike was rewarded for 2 games of excellent play (13 in 17 and 16 in 18 minutes) with a DNP. This is illogical unless he was injured or told Nelson he fuked his Mama. Diogu is our second leading scorer per 48 mins, leading rebounder per 48 minutes and 2nd leading fg% leader period. these #s are staggering, considering the sporadic and illogical and often rare minutes he gets. I would just like to see this gifted young man get consistent minutes at his natural position (4), say 25 minutes a game for 20 games. I don't think there is any secret that he would excel.
I have seen this again and again in this league(unappreciated talent prospering elsewhere), including with playoff mvp Chauncey Billups and most recently with Matt Barnes, and the last thing we need is another talented ex-warrior with a grudge lighting up the league in some other uniform. Like I said, perhaps Ike is a private "blamer" but I would just say it will take more than one Don nelson temper tantrum public shaming to convince me that Ike is a malcontent. With all the rumors on the internet, you think SOMETHING would have surfaced to confirm that by now. Nothing. There are several articles expressing mystification at why Diogu is in Nelson's doghouse, though. Btw, publicly calling out your players, ala Larry Brown, is a classless and dispiriting power play, whether it's Ike or Dung or Murphy whom Nelson is calling out. At least in the case of Dung and Murphy they also bitched publicly, so you could argue fair is fair.
I am glad the Ws are 17-16. I would like to see them do well, maybe even win a couple of games as an 8th seed. The playoffs are about 1/2 court and we need all the help we can get, and Ike is the ONLY W with a credible low post game. So Free (i.e. play) Ike Diogu...or trade him, cause the kid deserves to play.
We knew this going into the season; it's Don Nelson's way or the highway.
Dunleavy is a complainer... but not to his teammates (save for his single, snide comment about Baron last season). Bitching about foul calls is one thing. Blaming your teammates for your mistakes it another.
You nor I know the truth of the situation because all we see are the on-court results. But many things go into a basketball players. Before and after game times, practice times, travel conversation, bench conversation, half-time attitude, ect... all of those things go into what Nelson has said about Ike Diogu.
Does Diogu seem like a complainer on the floor? Tough to say. As charismatic as the kid is, he's also been seen (several times) cutting down his teammates. I won't cite other people's examples, but (from my own standpoint), I've seen Ike yell at Mike Dunleavy when Jr told him to set a screen, I've seen Ike get on Biedrins' ass after the other team hit an easy dunk inside (on Ike's side, by the way), and I've seen Ike walk straight to the bench and roll his eyes when he doesn't get enough touches. Is Diogu a complainer? No fan can say for sure. But it certainly doesn't look out of this world for Nelson to say something like that.
Besides, this is getting way out of hand. Don Nelson has practically blue-printed what he doesn't like about Diogu in the papers. If Ike's reading what I read, than he knows that all he needs to do in order to get more playing time is this: (a) learn the playbook and (b) stop blaming his teammates.
People here are acting like Nelson's got a personal vendetta against some 20-year-old kid that he's never met before this season! Which sounds crazier: that Ike doesn't know where to be, that Ike blames his teammates, or that Don Nelson (personally) has it out for Ike Diogu after only 3 months??
It's not rocket science and it won't take months of work to accomplish: if Ike learns where he's suppose to be and keeps his mouth shut, Nelson will play him. It's that simple. Why is everyone here having such a hard time accepting that? This isn't Nelson's fault; it's clearly Ike's.
Nelson has spelled out (he's practically spoon-fed) what it will take for Ike to get playing time... and, still, Diogu doesn't listen. Whose fault is that?
Well, we could go back and forth on this forever, but I think my argument and yours side by side make our cases well enough. I have seen none of the on-court complaining you speak of from Ike, and btw, Dunleavy has taken several veiled shots at his teammates in the press as well as a number of oncourt bitching out sessions, ofen when HE has blown a defensive assignment or thrown a bad pass. However, in the end it really depends whether you accept your premise that Ike is an obdurate dude who will not listen and that is why Nelson doesn't play him or mine: Ike is an overproducer in the limited minutes he gets and Nelson's actions are consistent with a 30 year career of not liking inside post play (see Ewing, Cummings, etc) and capriciously putting players in the doghouse. That's the basic disagreement and like I said, until I hear from a source other than Nelson that ike is a "blamer" I am a Missourian.