Players Don Nelson Will Help/Hinder

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Will Nelson's overall effect make the Warriors better or worse as a whole?

Much Better! 50 Wins!
12
29%
He'll wake up Golden State's talent... 40 wins.
26
63%
Nelson won't help. Same record.
2
5%
He'll pull a Larry Brown and actually make the team WORSE.
1
2%
 
Total votes : 41

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:42 am
TMC wrote:
#32 wrote:No, I meant Spree playing for us. And it was kind of tongue-in-cheek. :wink:


That won't happen. He needs to feed his family. How can he do that with less than $10 million per year?

Well, the league proved to him last season that he's not the star he once was. His hold-out gained him nothing. If he's smart, he'll take a lesser (more reasonable) contract and accept a supporting role.

Latrell Sprewell is still a very talented player to have... but I can't see us picking him up just for kicks. If we were in the playoff race and we needed some extra fire, I can see Mully picking him up for veteran experience and defensive prowess. But besides that, there's just too much drama surrounding him and Golden State. Any attempt to pick up Sprewell, and you'll hear Kawakami cackling, "Oh! Look at the desperate move by Golden State!!! They're bringing in a guy who CHOKED the coach last time! Can they not make any other roster moves besides this last ditch effort by Chris Mullin!?! Blah blah blah!"

It's just too much bad press for the franchise. If it'll help get us over the hump, than Mullin will probably deem it worthwhile. But, even though he would probably help throughout the season, there are too many boo birds surrounding Golden State right now to do anything controversial (if you're the GM or VP).
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:33 am
#32 wrote:
TMC wrote:
#32 wrote:No, I meant Spree playing for us. And it was kind of tongue-in-cheek. :wink:


That won't happen. He needs to feed his family. How can he do that with less than $10 million per year?

Well, the league proved to him last season that he's not the star he once was. His hold-out gained him nothing. If he's smart, he'll take a lesser (more reasonable) contract and accept a supporting role.

Latrell Sprewell is still a very talented player to have... but I can't see us picking him up just for kicks. If we were in the playoff race and we needed some extra fire, I can see Mully picking him up for veteran experience and defensive prowess. But besides that, there's just too much drama surrounding him and Golden State. Any attempt to pick up Sprewell, and you'll hear Kawakami cackling, "Oh! Look at the desperate move by Golden State!!! They're bringing in a guy who CHOKED the coach last time! Can they not make any other roster moves besides this last ditch effort by Chris Mullin!?! Blah blah blah!"

It's just too much bad press for the franchise. If it'll help get us over the hump, than Mullin will probably deem it worthwhile. But, even though he would probably help throughout the season, there are too many boo birds surrounding Golden State right now to do anything controversial (if you're the GM or VP).


If Nelson wants him, Spree, then Mullin should get him.

Yes, it might be controversial; but, how much more controversial is it to bring in Spree (for defense, toughness, and open court play), then it is to bring in a college coach like Monty?

And since when did Tim K's column influence Chris Mullin?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:59 am
uptempo wrote:If Nelson wants him, Spree, then Mullin should get him.

Yes, it might be controversial; but, how much more controversial is it to bring in Spree (for defense, toughness, and open court play), then it is to bring in a college coach like Monty?

Bringing in Mike Montgomery wasn't controversial until last year. In fact, during his first season in Golden State, he was praised for allowing Baron Davis to play his own game (hence the 18-6 ending). The following year (when Montgomery inexplicably became hard-headed with players), than his employment became a controversey.

The 4 wins less record that Golden State attained that year was mostly attributed to the loss of Jamison (and the process of rebuilding); not the loss of Mussellman (an average coach who found better rotations for Golden State).
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:36 pm
#32 wrote:
uptempo wrote:If Nelson wants him, Spree, then Mullin should get him.

Yes, it might be controversial; but, how much more controversial is it to bring in Spree (for defense, toughness, and open court play), then it is to bring in a college coach like Monty?

Bringing in Mike Montgomery wasn't controversial until last year. In fact, during his first season in Golden State, he was praised for allowing Baron Davis to play his own game (hence the 18-6 ending). The following year (when Montgomery inexplicably became hard-headed with players), than his employment became a controversey.

The 4 wins less record that Golden State attained that year was mostly attributed to the loss of Jamison (and the process of rebuilding); not the loss of Mussellman (an average coach who found better rotations for Golden State).


The loss of Jameson happened two seasons prior, not last season.

Musselman had the team on the right track; Monty never did. The 18-6 ending of Monty's first season can greatly be attributed to playing teams who were no longer in the playoff hunt (thus not having any reason to win) and the play of Baron Davis (a good Mullin pickup; but would we have been better off drafting a Chris Paul?).

Last season was a big step backwards. The team had no firepower at the small forward position. We had no inside game (other than Ike), and we never gave Biedrens the opportunity to become the starting center.

It remains to be seen where the pieces of the puzzle fit with this team. I do like the athleticism of our smaller players, and Nelson is the best at coaching "small ball." Let's hope that Mullin (who has done a good job drafting) did right by drafting POB.

Speaking of POB, I did get to watch a few of his college games last season. He looked like he could become a very good inside defender. OG Broe, you saw him in Vegas this past summer. Did he have any offensive game?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:21 pm
Big 'O' showed flashes of promise offensively with a legit sky hook and the ability to knock down a mid range jumper, but still he is a project that can provide some interior defense :!:
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:28 pm
POB is long and looks like he can run the floor. Coaches often say that it takes 3 years for a center to develop. Robert Parish had similar attributes as POB coming out of Centenary College in Louisana.

Let's hope that POB can get into the rotation at center with Biedrens.

Is Taft a center or a power forward?

Also, does Murphy play center or power foward?

Does Dunleavy play power forward?

Ike, imho, should only play power forward.

And then there's Foyle...

It sure looks like we have a glut of players at the 4-5 positions. Can Mullin put together a package so that the team can get a good small forward?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:13 pm
uptempo wrote:POB is long and looks like he can run the floor. Coaches often say that it takes 3 years for a center to develop. Robert Parish had similar attributes as POB coming out of Centenary College in Louisana.

Let's hope that POB can get into the rotation at center with Biedrens.

Is Taft a center or a power forward?

Also, does Murphy play center or power foward?

Does Dunleavy play power forward?

Ike, imho, should only play power forward.

And then there's Foyle...

It sure looks like we have a glut of players at the 4-5 positions. Can Mullin put together a package so that the team can get a good small forward?


I do hope POB becomes something we can use for the long run. Taft was listed as a PF in the draft but Monty used him more at center during his time here. Murphy plays both. But according to Nelson, he'll be used more as a center this year, most likely the starter. Dunleavy will play PF this year because Nelson feels he struggles at SF. Ike will play PF this year unless Nelson says otherwise. Foyle will get little or no playing time this year. If we did, get a good small forward, we'd have to most likely give up players we don't want to leave. I really think we should enter the season first and let them perform. Once we know how things are going, that'll set the tone to whether or not we should make changes. Other than that, the Warriors have their starters in check.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:48 pm
I've got a lot of hope for O'Bryant.

He looked spotty, but effective in the LVSL games I saw. Seeing as 90% of rookies are up and down coming into the NBA, I don't think it's too big of an issue.

Here are several (legit) reasons that O'Bryant will do nothing but help the Warriors:

- The Skyhook
- He's an athletic freak (think a taller Mickael Pietrus)
- The kid's a legit 7-footer... not some near-7-footer, like we've had for years
- He's already as good as Andris Biedrins, straight out of the draft... and has nowhere to go but up.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:59 pm
uptempo wrote:Shooting guard/small forwards have all thrived under Don Nelson (Pressey, Pierce, Bridgeman, M. Johnson, Richmond, Spree, Mullin, Finley). Šarūnas Marčiulionis also had a good career playing for Nelson. Look for Richardson and Air France to thrive under Nelson.

I think it's a safe bet that Richardson will shine under Nelson.

uptempo wrote:Centers and low block players were never Nelson's cup of tea. He had Patrick Ewing jacking up three point shots and got his tired ass fired from the Knicks because of his misuse of Ewing on the perimeter. Look for POB, Biedrens, and Foyle playing at the top of the arc and shooting threes.

I beg to differ. During the 95-96 season that Nelson coached NY part of the year, Ewing played 76 games and shot 28 threes. That's roughly 1 every 3 games. I wouldn't call that "jacking up three point shots". I'd hazzard a guess that most of thoses buzzer beaters.

uptempo wrote:Power forwards have not done well under Nelson unless they play on the perimeter like Dirk in Dallas. Terry Cummings, just because of his sheer will to dominate, was given an opportunity to establish some low block presence under Nelson. Look for Murphy to never play in the paint on offense. Hopefully Ike can get some more playing time, but will also be counted upon to play on the perimeter.

I beg to differ with this, also. As, primarily, a Mavs fan, I saw Nelson coach to his player's strengths. If a player has a low post game, Nelson takes advantage of it. If a player is weak in the post, he seldom plays there.

I saw Nelson play guards in the post against other guards. His reasoning was that most guards played in the post in high school but weren't good at the defending the post. He used Greg Buckner quite a bit like that.

uptempo wrote:Point guards like Hardaway, Avery Johnson, Hubert Davis, and Nash all thrived under Nelson. Baron should get the green light to play a lot of two man stuff with both Richardson and Murphy. Look for the isolation play and the high pick and roll ending with the 20 foot jump shot being a big part of the Warrior offense.


Probably so.

uptempo wrote:Foyle loses big time with this hire, as does Biedrens. Guys who play defense will not be given much opportunity on this team.

This is not necessarily true. Nelson tries to figure out what each player brings to the table and then puts them in position to succeed. The key is, the player has to be able to play and not turn the ball over. Nelson hates turnovers.

uptempo wrote:Hopefully the team can play an uptempo game and win. It may not be too much of a stretch to see this team blow up in Nelson's face like the Knick team did.

What some people forget is Nelson was 34-25 when he was let go by NY. Would you be satisfied with a .576 win %? If that's a "blow up" I think I'd take it.

uptempo wrote:Assistant coaches seem to thrive under Nelson (Popovich, Johnson, Karl, Shuler, Dunleavy, Harris, Lanier). Maybe Ellie will get the mentoring and be moved up to head coach within a couple of years.

Probably not.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:14 pm
uptempo wrote:
Unfortunately, if the team makes the playoffs, it will get ousted early because no Don Nelson coached team plays the kind of defense nor structured half-court offense to succeed in the playoffs.

That was always the talk but there was never any basis in fact. Nelson's teams have more possessions, thus more scoring for both teams. In Dallas Nellie had Del Harris to coach the defense and they improved every year.

It's my recollection that a Nellie coached team only lost to 1 lower seeded team during the playoffs. That is, his teams beat the teams they were supposed to beat. He was out-gunned by Celtic and 76er teams at Milwaukee and Laker and Sonic teams at GS. In Dallas his teams had to butt heads with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, SA and the Kings. Those teams were simply better teams.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:30 pm
uptempo wrote:
Hoonyo wrote:I don't think you upgrade to bust. You downgrade. Ike's got three point range. I hope Nellie doesn't turn him into Raef LaFrentz. He may just use Ike predominantly with pick-and-rolls or pick-and-pops with his range ala Nash/Nowitzki. Has Nellie's offense ever taken advantage of low-post scoring?


With an aging Bob Lanier, Nelson did run some of Milwaukee's offense thru the low block. However, Nelson got his sorry ass fired from the Knicks job midway thru a season for playing both Patrick Ewing and Anthony Mason outside of the three point arc. That Knick team struggled under Nelson but thrived under Van Gundy (Jeff).

NY was 34-25 under Nelson and 13-10 under JVG in 95-96. That year, Ewing shot 28 threes in 76 games and Anthony Mason shot zero (0) threes in 82 games. Oddly enough, Ewings numbers, under Nelson, were practically identical to all his other prime years. What Ewing objected to was Nelson wasn't Pat Riley and didn't kiss his @ss like Pat Riley did.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:10 pm
David wrote:
uptempo wrote:
Unfortunately, if the team makes the playoffs, it will get ousted early because no Don Nelson coached team plays the kind of defense nor structured half-court offense to succeed in the playoffs.

That was always the talk but there was never any basis in fact. Nelson's teams have more possessions, thus more scoring for both teams. In Dallas Nellie had Del Harris to coach the defense and they improved every year.

It's my recollection that a Nellie coached team only lost to 1 lower seeded team during the playoffs. That is, his teams beat the teams they were supposed to beat. He was out-gunned by Celtic and 76er teams at Milwaukee and Laker and Sonic teams at GS. In Dallas his teams had to butt heads with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, SA and the Kings. Those teams were simply better teams.




Good information!

Nelson has been a success everywhere he has gone and it is true that he does not kiss arse and I respect the old cunnt for that!

Well written Goliath :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:28 pm
WELCOME TO THE BOARD, DAVID! :D
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:56 pm
David wrote:
uptempo wrote:
Unfortunately, if the team makes the playoffs, it will get ousted early because no Don Nelson coached team plays the kind of defense nor structured half-court offense to succeed in the playoffs.

That was always the talk but there was never any basis in fact. Nelson's teams have more possessions, thus more scoring for both teams. In Dallas Nellie had Del Harris to coach the defense and they improved every year.

It's my recollection that a Nellie coached team only lost to 1 lower seeded team during the playoffs. That is, his teams beat the teams they were supposed to beat. He was out-gunned by Celtic and 76er teams at Milwaukee and Laker and Sonic teams at GS. In Dallas his teams had to butt heads with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, SA and the Kings. Those teams were simply better teams.



Whoa, back up now. Ever thought about being a writer someday? That was very good.

To summarize all that, where ever Nelson goes, there is always winning that follows. Playoffs is the prize for the winning.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:38 am
xBayAreaWarriorx wrote:To summarize all that, where ever Nelson goes, there is always winning that follows. Playoffs is the prize for the winning.


Yeah, but it takes time. His first two seasons in Dallas were awful, until he was given enough time to tinker with the roster and get the right players for his system.

He's a great coach, but he can't do miracles...
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