I feel that some take Lee for granted

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:36 pm
Beast Mode wrote:
migya wrote:
Beast Mode wrote:Kevin Love is literally better than David Lee in every aspect of basketball.

**** like this is why this forum has like 6 posters.



That's an out of place statement


Nah, that trade proposal was. Lee is already overpaid. He's coming off a major injury. Draymond Green is solid but not really that much better than any other bench player in the league. Fans tend to overrate their own players like you just did. We could offer Minnesota David Lee and 3 future first round picks for Love and they'd still rightfully decline.

You're on point again, Beast.

It would take a lot more than David Lee to sway Minnesota into giving up Kevin Love. Klay Thompson or Harrison Barnes is a must... And if you don't send both, you'll need to send either Ezeli/Nedovic AND a future 1st rounder along with cash. A Lee-Green package is a nice dream, but I'd say the Wolves have a bigger chance of winning the NBA title next year than accepting that trade.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:42 pm
Lee will recover fine from the injury, heck he was playing still. The guy is a worker. Injury is a part of the game, it's common, something almost every player goes through from time to time. It could be a lot worse, like Rose or Kobe.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:07 pm
migya wrote:
Beast Mode wrote:Kevin Love is literally better than David Lee in every aspect of basketball.

**** like this is why this forum has like 6 posters.



That's an out of place statement and overreaction. This is a place to talk nba and basketball in general.


That's mean
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:38 pm
Beast Mode wrote:
migya wrote:
Beast Mode wrote:Kevin Love is literally better than David Lee in every aspect of basketball.

**** like this is why this forum has like 6 posters.



That's an out of place statement


Nah, that trade proposal was. Lee is already overpaid. He's coming off a major injury. Draymond Green is solid but not really that much better than any other bench player in the league. Fans tend to overrate their own players like you just did. We could offer Minnesota David Lee and 3 future first round picks for Love and they'd still rightfully decline.



As I had said, Love was injured all of last season and was out even before the season with the same injury he suffered later. He is no certainty either, as a hand injury directly relates to the sport of basketball. Lee was able to even play sparingly again a mere week or so after sustaining his injury.

I suggest you look back at past trades involving superstars, even just in the last ten years or so. I'll give you just a few examples:

Shaq traded from Lakers to Miami for Butler, BGrant and Odom, neither an allstar in their careers at that point. BGrant disappeared from the nba very soon after, Butler played just one season there which was ordinary, being traded for Kwame Brown (Buss' best trade :mrgreen: ) and Odom being good but at his best as a 6th man when PGasol and Bynum arrived there.

PGasol traded to Lakers for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, the draft rights to Marc Gasol, first round picks in 2008 and 2010 and second round draft choice in 2010. That was a thieving of a trade at the time and they got reallucky that MGasol turned out to be a very good player.

Just recently the Celts gave Pierce, KG and Terry for GWallace, Humphries, a number of future picks (likely late ones with how stacked that Nets team will be for at least the next three or four years) and scrubs.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:53 am
migya, you can't compare Shaq, Pierce, and Garnett in their 15th seasons to Love in his 4th. The only reason Brooklyn and Miami got those deals was because they were trading for aging stars. Kevin Love is not aging. He's extremely young.

And the Pau Gasol trade was so aggregous, 25 of 30 NBA teams voted to veto the trade, which David Stern overruled (Stern later veto'd a CP3 trade to LA that no other team voiced displeasure with).

Look at trades from THIS decade. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard... All demanding their way off teams and ALL providing a King's ransom for the squad they were leaving. Your blanket statement about teams never receiving equal value pertains to a time in history that has long passed. I don't care what the Sixers got for Barkley 30 years ago; in today's NBA, the standard package for a top 15 NBA talent is: the starter who occupies his position, your best prospect, a future #1 (or 2 or 3, depending on the validity of your prospect), an expiring contract, and cash. That's just the facts. David Lee and Draymond Green is a package that would get us Amar'e or Garnett; aging, injured former stars with big contracts, not the premiere PF in the game.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:47 am
The players that you listed and the trades involving them are all examples of what I've said - You just don't get equal value in return for your star.

Chris Paul, superstar and #1 PG in the nba, was traded for Eric Gordon, Kaman, Al-Farouq Aminu and the 2012 first round draft selection the Clippers acquired from the Minnesota Timberwolves in 2005, which ended up being Austin Rivers I'm pretty sure of. The Clippers also received two future second round draft picks. That trade was a steal for the Clips and accordingly they vaulted into a top seed in the west, ranked 5th and 4th in the two seasons he's been there. Hornets got worse and even with the #1 pick last season could not get anywhere near the playoffs. Paul, in the prime of his career at his best, was traded for a falling center, potential SG and relatively nothing else.

Deron Williams, superstar and at the time #2 PG in the nba, was traded for Favors, DHarris and two first round draft picks, which ended up being Kanter and Gorgui Dieng. Potential for Favors especially and to a lesser extent Kanter, but that's a steal for the Nets and promptly they've also vaulted into a top team in the East and the Jazz have fallen out of the playoffs.

Carmelo, another superstar, along with Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman were traded to New York for Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, Wilson Chandler and New York's 2014 first-round draft pick. Billups was still a top 10 PG and the Knicks rose from then on and are better than they have been in a number of years now. Denver received no allstars and the main reason why that trade turned out fairly well for them was because their former brains Masai Ujiri and George Karl made it work, adding pieces like Ty Lawson and Faried as well. Still a trade that worked out better for the Knicks who got the superstar and have improved more.

Dwight, another superstar and #1 Center in the nba, was traded to Lakers and they sent Andrew Bynum to the Philadelphia 76ers, who also received shooting guard Jason Richardson from the Magic. The Sixers sent guard Andre Iguodala to the Denver Nuggets. The Magic received Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, Nikola Vucevic, rookie Moe Harkless, forward Josh McRoberts, forward Christian Eyenga, a first-round pick in 2014, a protected first-round pick from the Sixers, a protected first-round pick from the Lakers in 2017, a second-round pick from the Nuggets in 2013 and a conditional second-rounder from the Lakers in 2015. Bynum was injured and didn't play a single game all last season and the Magic received nothing of value for the most dominant big man there is right now.


Superstars never get equal value in return. In the case of Lee, he is an allstar and top 5 PF right now. DGreen had a very good showing in the playoffs last season and would be close to the best bench player for Minnesota. I'd even add a future 1st round pick, make it 2015 in a trade for Love, but that's good value for the TWolves and better than they'd get in most if not all other offers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:08 pm
The trade would not happen without Barnes or Klay being included. Just stop.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:48 pm
We did give Utah JR and Andris for nothing. So i dunno.

Migs you be throwin out some whacky azz stuff doe.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:40 pm
8th ave wrote:We did give Utah JR and Andris for nothing. So i dunno.

Migs you be throwin out some whacky azz stuff doe.




The only whacky arse is that hoe in that avatar of your :-o :wink:


I don't see how it is farfetched a Lee and DGreen, add a future 1st rounder or two 2nd rounders if needed, for Love trade. There have been worse trades and the thing always is, when a star player shows displeasure with his team, that team will get less for him, as they are then in the weaker, in need, position. Love early last season voiced that he was not happy with the TWolves FO for there lack of ability in building a winning team, as they haven't even made the playoffs. That's actually a concern I have about Love, as great as he is, the TWolves have only had one mediocre season with him, last season. The other seasons they have been one of the worst teams in the nba each time. He has had relative garbage on his team for sure, but KG also did and at least he managed to take them to the playoffs some seven years straight.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:56 pm
Trust us, migs. It's far-fetched. No offense intended, but we'd have a better shot of signing Rick Barry out of retirement than acquiring Kevin Love for a poor man's model of himself with a sophomore second round pick as a pot sweetener. Just wont happen. In the NBA, you gotta give up something to get something.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:46 am
I disagree, but then again, most of my trade ideas many have disagreed with :wink: :)

Still is interesting how Minnesota hasn't been good at all since Love arrived there.

Maybe Greg Monroe would be a better PF than Lee and even Lee, at least in a year or two and at least to a winning team. Monroe seems like a very well skilled player that will grow quickly and become an allstar very soon.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:09 pm
I see your point about Love, but Lee himself drew similar criticism before last year. The Wolves, with Rubio healthy, are a playoff team. Pekovic is already a guy who sews up the middle and Rubio makes everyone infinitely better, like Magic and JKidd. If Minnesota can get 2 guns (like Lee and Thompson) for Love, it may be worth it just to give Rubio more options to throw the rock to. Thompson spreading the floor would only make that roster more dangerous.

I think Monroe would be terrific at PF, but he's hardly worth a guy like Lee, and his lack of range seems like it would make him a poor fit next to Bogut (whose lost his shooting touch).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:25 am
Good comparison of Rubio to Kidd and Magic, as he also makes others around him better. I don't think they'll make the playoffs fully healthy the TWolves.

Monroe hasn't got the range with his shooting but he is very active, a good trait in a big.
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