Dwight Howard Considering the Warriors

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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:20 am
Nah, we don't have to move key pieces because he is a free agent. Even in a sign and trade. We might give up a little amount of pieces, but Lakers have no leverage here. He can go to Houston and the Lakers would get nothing.

I like Van Gundy's take on it. "Every GM would take Howard over Hibbert."
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:27 am
Bay, you know I feel you, you know I can't deny a thing you said...

But...

He's the top center in the NBA when healthy. If he's right, he's a ticket to the Conference Finals. It's automatic, cold hard math. He's the only guy in the league who will average 18, 14, and 3 if he makes a full recovery. Jared Stearne wrote a very compelling argument for Howard's usefulness and exactly why the Warriors should deal for him:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golden-sta ... 00392.html

Depending on the purchase price, you MUST look at a deal featuring the league's best center. You simply must; you owe it to your team. If it costs Klay Thompson and Andrew Bogut and Harrison Barnes, then sure, absolutely, there's no way a playoff team who got to the 2nd round without their all-star should deal away 3 of their starting 5 for a player that's coming off an injury-riddled, disgruntled season.

But...

What if it doesn't cost that much?

What if the Lakers buy into Barnes as the next big thing, are willing to take a shot with Andrew Bogut, would be happy to let him expire if it doesn't work out (they've never had trouble attracting marque free agents before) and realize they won't get Thompson AND Barnes, no matter how hard they try?

Don't you pull the trigger on that deal?

My God, the idea of Dwight and DLee as an inside-outside frontcourt is scary enough, but to pair them with THIS backcourt? Inheriting Howard's massive amount of free throws (not so much him at the line; but the idea of LIVING in the bonus most games), acquiring the best defensive big in the world whose played in 94% of all his NBA games (compared to Bogut, who takes half the year off EVERY season)? If Bogut and Barnes are enough to persuade LA from going through the Dwightmare again, WHO KNOWS how he'll respond to a fresh start in a basketball market that WORSHIPS their stars?! This fan base was CONVINCED that Jason Richardson was a top NBA shooting guard! They chanted "MVP" at Curry and Baron during the playoffs! They're the most ruckus crowd in the entire league! Can you imagine what an ego maniac like Dwight would do in a market that adores him, like this one would?

This lineup is pure evil. Fear:

C: Dwight Howard / Festus Ezeli
PF: David Lee / Draymond Green
SF: Brandon Rush / Richard Jefferson
SG: Klay Thompson /
PG: Stephen Curry / Jarrett Jack

That's a championship squad. Don't you owe it to the Bay Area to at least TRY that out?
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:43 am
32 wrote:Bay, you know I feel you, you know I can't deny a thing you said...

But...

He's the top center in the NBA when healthy. If he's right, he's a ticket to the Conference Finals. It's automatic, cold hard math. He's the only guy in the league who will average 18, 14, and 3 if he makes a full recovery. Jared Stearne wrote a very compelling argument for Howard's usefulness and exactly why the Warriors should deal for him:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/golden-sta ... 00392.html

Depending on the purchase price, you MUST look at a deal featuring the league's best center. You simply must; you owe it to your team. If it costs Klay Thompson and Andrew Bogut and Harrison Barnes, then sure, absolutely, there's no way a playoff team who got to the 2nd round without their all-star should deal away 3 of their starting 5 for a player that's coming off an injury-riddled, disgruntled season.

But...

What if it doesn't cost that much?

What if the Lakers buy into Barnes as the next big thing, are willing to take a shot with Andrew Bogut, would be happy to let him expire if it doesn't work out (they've never had trouble attracting marque free agents before) and realize they won't get Thompson AND Barnes, no matter how hard they try?

Don't you pull the trigger on that deal?

My God, the idea of Dwight and DLee as an inside-outside frontcourt is scary enough, but to pair them with THIS backcourt? Inheriting Howard's massive amount of free throws (not so much him at the line; but the idea of LIVING in the bonus most games), acquiring the best defensive big in the world whose played in 94% of all his NBA games (compared to Bogut, who takes half the year off EVERY season)? If Bogut and Barnes are enough to persuade LA from going through the Dwightmare again, WHO KNOWS how he'll respond to a fresh start in a basketball market that WORSHIPS their stars?! This fan base was CONVINCED that Jason Richardson was a top NBA shooting guard! They chanted "MVP" at Curry and Baron during the playoffs! They're the most ruckus crowd in the entire league! Can you imagine what an ego maniac like Dwight would do in a market that adores him, like this one would?

This lineup is pure evil. Fear:

C: Dwight Howard / Festus Ezeli
PF: David Lee / Draymond Green
SF: Brandon Rush / Richard Jefferson
SG: Klay Thompson /
PG: Stephen Curry / Jarrett Jack

That's a championship squad. Don't you owe it to the Bay Area to at least TRY that out?


That's a pretty good argument.

Gotta ask yourself this too, no matter how unlikely it is, if Barnes develops into an all-star and Bogut stays healthy for the duration of the year: Do you have a better shot at gold than Dubs + Dwight? That's a tough decision. Heart says to keep the roster, head says trade for Dwight.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:47 am
You also question why it didn't work in LA. Personally, I blame it on Kobe, but I don't keep up with the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:54 am
If Barnes develops a set of handles and becomes a 23-point scorer, it's a bad deal.

But Bogut for Howard isn't a question. So it really does depend on HB. If I had a crystal ball that could definitively say for certain that Barnes will top out at 14 points, never learn to put the ball on the floor, and basically becomes Pietrus V.2, then the deal is a lot easier to make. But those playoff games have me thinking Barnes might surpass Klay as the team's 2nd gun... sooner than later.

Still though. As it stands right now, I'm pulling the trigger. D12 is one year removed from being the most untouchably dominant big man in the whole world. And I don't follow the Lakers very closely either, but it seems to me... Kobe has problems with Shaq, Dwight, Gasol... Bynum is a total knucklehead in LA... there's one constant factor in that equation and it's the wannabe like Mike clone...
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:20 am
I disagree 32 on the terms of defense you dispelled with a Bogut/Dwight frontcourt.

You'd switch to the 3-2 Zone and let great perimeter defenders like Brandon Rush, Harrison Barnes to work those wings while Curry defends the top of the key.

I just don't see how you can't see this is not a awesome defense.

And I think Bogut & Dwight are good from about 10 foot. I'd probably have Andrew play the PF position cause he's probably got the better feet movement for defending a shifty PF who likes to add a bit of dribble and shoot to his game,
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:06 am
My question is, would rather trade:

1. Bogut and Barnes

2. Bogut and Thompson

for Dwight Howard?

In my book, Harrison is, or at least will be, more complete player when compared to Klay. Klay's game is strictly on the outside, and we have Curry for that, but...Harrison can do it all. Just a little bit training for him, or experience, and kid could be lethal. He has it all physically, he seems like a smart kid as well...so, why wouldn't he live up to his potential? He wasn't regarded as one of the best talents since highschool for no reason. Klay's ceiling was never that high. And don't get me wrong, Klay is great guy, he improved a lot on D, he is one of the best shooters...but, offense is more than just outside shots and perimeter defense. When his shots aren't falling, Klay is out of the game pretty much, and we've seen that in the POs. He will sometimes grab some defensive rebounds, and share some assists, but those assists aren't some great passes that make teammates finish all alone below the basket. Mostly it's pass to the next guy for the open shot when he is covered.

And Barnes, when his shot isn't falling (and bear in mind that Barnes didn't come to the league with a bad team and had all year to shoot as much as he wanted, cause there weren't good players next to him) created for himself, was it offensive rebound, was it slashing, was it playing with back to the basket...players who can do it all, even a little bit, mean a world in the game, not for them just, but for teammates as well. They will stretch, they will demand double teams, they will be constants problem no matter who you put on them, cause they will always have something in their arsenal for every type of defenders.

So, I'm saying that I would be more for the Bogut plus Klay option. But, either way, you gotta pull the trigger on that trade, Harrison, Klay...doesn't matter.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:31 am
I totally agree with you, Guybrush - I would also make the deal in either case (Bogut/Klay or Bogut/Barnes). The question is -if the Lakers is willing to deal for both packages, which I doubt - who we would prefer to deal? I'll definetely say Klay. Barnes has a ceiling which is highter than Klay's - right now, Klay i probably the better player, but I'm almost positive that the story would be different in 2 years. Klay really had a subpar year in terms of shooting and Barnes stepped his game up in the PO's and can easily be as good or better than Klay at D, where the guy has all the tools and certainly the willingsness to put the effort into it. Barnes just seems - at least to me - as such a great guy and I would be VERY sad to se him leaving, all though I also would deal him for Howard if I got the chance to do so..

So, personally, I would love the deal if we ship Klay and Bogut to L.A. and i would also cherish the deal if we skipped Barnes/Bogut, but I definetely preferring keeping Barnes if L.A was high on Klay.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:45 pm
What are our options if the Lakers don't want Bogut (injury history)

Bogut and Gasol might not be a tandem they want (allthough that might possibly a better big man passing 4/5 combo then Bogut/Lee)

All I am saying is if they keep Gasol, What need do they have for Bogut? They'd probably want a 4 to tandem with their big in Gasol.

Ok.. TANGENT. Would anyone take on Gasol if it cost us less?

Bogut for Gasol???

Lee for Gasol???

I wouldn't do the Bogut for Gasol deal, but straight up Lee for Gasol.. That's got me at least listening!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:28 am
The thruth is, the team made the playoffs, lost one of it's best two players to injury after the first game in the playoffs, upset the higher seed Nuggets in the 1st round and had the championship experienced Spurs on the ropes all series and should have won the first two games which were in San Antonio. Could have easily won the series and made it to at least the WCF.

The current roster has ability to be champions - Do we want to mess with that, potentially destroying a team that at the very least should be a playoff one for the next five years, something this franchise hasn't had since Rick Barry was playing? I do not.

Dwight's basketball ability is rather awesome, but at present, his abilities on a winning team are not such a sure thing as they were some four years ago. The Lakers team is stacked and should have won at least 60 games and they didn't, they struggled.

The biggest thing is Dwight's attitude. The man is a negative in a big way and that is something to stay away from. If Bogut was healthy and had played most of the season, most of us would not be for this trade, as the team would have won over 50 games, likely around 55, and next season we'd be looking at more.


In saying that, if it is serious in getting Dwight, the FO has to understand that the Lakers have no power here. Dwight commands it all and they could lose him for nothing. If it's here he wants to come and the FO wants him, it will take no more than Bogut, a bench player and future 1st rounder. If he goes to Houston, Lakers get nothing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:11 pm
But migs, I don't buy into that argument.

Just because the team took the Spurs to 6 games in round 2 doesn't mean they'll automatically get there again with a healthy Lee. For as much as we pine about injuries, both Curry and Bogut were pretty damn healthy. Neither missed a game in the postseason; even though they were noticeably hobbled. Can you count on Bogut being there, as a dominant defensive force for 15-20 games AFTER the regular season? I dunno if you can say its automatic.

Curry had a historically great 1st round. That won't always happen. Look at round 2 for proof. Superman series don't usually happen multiple times a career, unless you're a tip-top NBA superstar (I'm talking LeBron, DRose type player). Is Curry there? I know he's a star, but so is Carmelo. So is Chris Paul. What's their success rate in the post season? Curry carrying the team to a series victory over a squad that's 3 spots higher in the rankings cannot be taken for granted.

You HAVE to upgrade talent when you can. You HAVE to improve the team whenever possible. Chemistry goes as soon as it arrives. Check the history books; the Clippers with QRich, Elton Brand, and Darius Miles had great chemistry. What happened to them in the span of a year?

All I'm saying is, saying no to the league's greatest position player (be a center, point guard, WHATEVER) for the sake of chemistry... I can't agree with that strategy. Dwight Howard deserves a serious look. If they can make it happen without surrendering 3 starters (or anything of value plus Curry), they MUST do it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:19 pm
Remember, Bogut was pretty hated in Milwaukee by other players and tries to start fights in practice to get the team to play better on defense.

http://behindthebuckpass.com/2013/03/12 ... h-teasing/

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/20 ... e-another/

This didn't make his teams worse.

Michael Jordan was basically a ****ing dick to everyone. Major ****ing ****. Didn't matter.


Off court chemistry is nonimportant. It's on court chemistry that matters. You can not like someone, have the same goals, and be in sync on the court even if you don't like each other.

It's nice our guys like each other, but I'd rather win more games.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:07 pm
Thought this could use a bump..We are prepared to offer LA Bogut and Barnes/Thompson for Dwight.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:44 pm
No-brainer.

If it costs 2 of our starters to get Dwight and you're telling me Curry and DLee are not apart of the deal, that's gold. Howard, when healthy, is the greatest center in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:45 pm
Curry and Dwight are a match made in heaven in terms of play style.
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