Trade Deadline Thread

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:48 pm
I dunno, I think New Orleans would rather have a mulligan on that contract, regardless of how healthy Gordon is. Klay Thompson is 3 or 4 years younger and won't command nearly the money that Gordon does. When Bucher said they'd revisit the deal in the offseason, I believe he's telling the truth.

As far as the scapegoat thing, it goes both ways. As hometown fans, our crowd REALLY overvalues Klay. It's not like he's a pure-scorer; he takes a LOT of outside jumpers (6.7 3PA/G) and rarely goes to the hole (2.1 FTA/G). He takes over 14 shots a night, hits 42% flat, and launches 46.2% of ALL his shots from beyond the arc. He offers peasant wages in secondary categories (4 rebounds, 2 assists, less than a block and a steal, in 35 minutes per game) and - I dunno how you're measuring defense, but - I've seen him get outright abused by athletic assignments (Kobe & Mayo, specifically). I literally blinked thrice and dropped my jaw when I read you calling him our best defensive player. Another example of how I believe stats can't tell the whole story, I assume. But to claim that Klay did better against Kobe than Barnes... I'd just flat out disagree.

Point is: ask 28 other team's fans who wins a Gordon-for-Thompson swap and half those people will respond with "Klay who?"... Yes, I know he's got potential and growth and development and all those unprovable, abstract safety nets that people love to fall back on in these arguments, but I think it's a little off-base to say that Klay is scape-goated because some of us put his name in potential trades for guys like Gerald Wallace and Eric Gordon.

He's not Paul Pierce. Anybody on this roster should be available for a better player.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:56 pm
100% agree. I don't dislike Thompson either and he clearly has som potential and scoring ability, bur at least right now, he isn't much more than perimeter shooting. Is that what you wan't out of your SG? If he has a Durant-like efiiency yes, but his true shooting percentage isn't good and he doesn't contribute with much outside of his scoring.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:12 pm
32 wrote:I dunno, I think New Orleans would rather have a mulligan on that contract, regardless of how healthy Gordon is. Klay Thompson is 3 or 4 years younger and won't command nearly the money that Gordon does. When Bucher said they'd revisit the deal in the offseason, I believe he's telling the truth.

As far as the scapegoat thing, it goes both ways. As hometown fans, our crowd REALLY overvalues Klay. It's not like he's a pure-scorer; he takes a LOT of outside jumpers (6.7 3PA/G) and rarely goes to the hole (2.1 FTA/G). He takes over 14 shots a night, hits 42% flat, and launches 46.2% of ALL his shots from beyond the arc. He offers peasant wages in secondary categories (4 rebounds, 2 assists, less than a block and a steal, in 35 minutes per game) and - I dunno how you're measuring defense, but - I've seen him get outright abused by athletic assignments (Kobe & Mayo, specifically). I literally blinked thrice and dropped my jaw when I read you calling him our best defensive player. Another example of how I believe stats can't tell the whole story, I assume. But to claim that Klay did better against Kobe than Barnes... I'd just flat out disagree.

Point is: ask 28 other team's fans who wins a Gordon-for-Thompson swap and half those people will respond with "Klay who?"... Yes, I know he's got potential and growth and development and all those unprovable, abstract safety nets that people love to fall back on in these arguments, but I think it's a little off-base to say that Klay is scape-goated because some of us put his name in potential trades for guys like Gerald Wallace and Eric Gordon.

He's not Paul Pierce. Anybody on this roster should be available for a better player.


TS percentage is 540. That's an efficient scorer and a very good percentage. Anything above 500 is higher than average for reference.

Kobe abuses everyone offensively, but you have to remember the last time we played the Lakers, Kobe took 40 shots for 30 points. Klay did a great job on him when he was on and forced a lot of bad shots.

Nah, you are definitely wrong on the last point, 32. Everybody in the league is higher on Klay than the fanbase as a whole is on Klay. And I am serious, we undervalue Klay to what people around the league think of Klay.


A quick read through this thread: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showth ... quot-stage

Overwhelming amounts of "bad trade for Warriors."

I think Eric Gordon has more upside than Klay, but I disagree with your assessment on Klay. Klay has been our best defensive player (not sure who you think has been better, maybe Jack) and he plays very efficiently on offense. And his rebounding is very much underrated because despite putting up low rebound numbers the team rebounds better when he is on the floor and his per game is low because we have a top rebounding team. That hurts the per game for most players. Say a guy like Evan Turner who has a higher per game total than Klay, but is a worse rebounder and that's because the sixers are particularly awful at rebounding.


Klay Thompson is probably the most underrated player among Warrior fans.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:06 pm
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't believe keeping an open mind in potential trades equates to a traitorous lack appreciation, nor do I believe that Thompson is a plus-level rebounder or defender - despite what the advanced stats may or may not say. Benjamin Disraeli FTW.

Defensively, I'd take Bogut, Ezeli, Green, Bazemore, Barnes, and Jack ahead of Thompson.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:16 pm
I didn't include Bogut because he has only played 12 games this year.

Ezeli is 98 defensive rating against other centers.
Klay is 97 against shooting guards.

Bazemore has not played enough as well to qualify for any kind of ranking.

Fair enough on Green, kind of forgot about him when I said that. He is the better defender.

Klay 97.7 vs. SG's
Jack is 97.9 vs PG's

Maybe Barnes in the future for defense, but definitely not this year.

Which is why I said maybe Jack and I said maybe because despite being higher the state of PG's is a lot more fruitful than SG's.

He is a plus defender and he is an average rebounder. He has a very good all around game and does a little bit of everything. And the reason I believe he is underrated by Warrior fans is because I constantly seen him suggested as a player we should trade for players that are worse than him.

Eric Gordon for Klay is the only trade that actually made sense in terms of fairness for the Warriors.

So far we have heard two credible trade rumors
Klay Thompson and Barnes for Harden
and
Klay Thompson for Eric Gordon

That should tell you where his value as a player is and what the league thinks of him. That's why it is frustrating to see so many Warrior fans so down on Klay when he is good at basketball. I have only seen mild critisms of Klay here, and that's fine, but I still see bad trade ideas including him (one time here) and probably about six or seven times outside of here.
Last edited by Blackfoot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:29 pm
Traded Jenkins and Tyler for 2nd rounders today. Good move and gives us the full MLE next year. Will it be enough to bring back Jack? Probably not. We'll have to hope that Bazemore will be able to fill in as back up point guard. I'm pretty sure Landry will be hitting free agency as well. The good news is that we have Rush coming back, and hopefully we can acquire another back up 4 that can take Landry's place. We'll see.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:03 am
But that's just it, BF.

In the offseason, I suggested we swap Klay for Iguodala. Recently, I constructed an idea with the squad formerly hailing from Jersey for 3 viable players, including Crash (our most pressing need), Marshon Brooks (whose just as young), and Blatche (a dirt cheap 22 PER guy). Finally, credible sources said the Warriors were exploring a swap for Eric Gordon that was shelved because the Warriors want to see if he's healthy.

Besides that ludicrous Evan Turner idea this past summer, I haven't seen anyone claiming we need to fish Thompson out there for scraps. Nobody wants to surrender him for draft picks or Tayshaun Prince or Grant Hill. And, most importantly, there's no pressing need to trade him. I think we're all fine with the idea of hanging onto Klay and seeing what we've got.

Is Klay without his faults? No, he's not a perfect player and he'll have hiccups in production - as is the nature of shooters. There's also at least SOME worry about pairing him in the backcourt with another jump shooter. With the Warriors forgetting their post options of late, this issue has become a little more apparent (though, admittedly, Curry seems to blame more than Thompson).

I just don't want anybody here under the mistaken notion that because Thompson (and Lee, and Curry, and Barnes, and Bogut) are available for trades that we somehow don't appreciate them. Transactions are the nature of the beast and Thompson commands a hefty return so it's only natural to wonder aloud just how bountiful a package he's actually worth.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:54 am
Its not a matter how good Klay is or how good he can be. Same goes for everyone else on this roster. Its easy to like players, but you have to love the team. In the end, the question remains...Is this a championship caliber team? Are you content with the Warriors JUST being a playoff team?

I don't see this current roster, even with a healthy Bogut for a full season, as a championship caliber team. I just don't. There are just too many defensive issues. We can talk about advanced stats all we want to try and prove points, but you have to just believe your eyes at some point. I just don't see Thompson as a good defender. He's an average one. You look at this roster and the key players are pretty much soft defensively with guys like Curry, Thompson and Lee. They need that Thabo Sefolosha, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen or Gerald Wallace type player. Someone who isn't going to demand the ball offensively and someone that takes pride in playing defense.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:16 am
Give Thompson and draft picks up for Kawhi. Seriosuly.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:50 pm
AndreasRiis wrote:Give Thompson and draft picks up for Kawhi. Seriosuly.


Well, Kahwi is most certainly better and has more upside than Klay. The real question is do you think the Spurs are retarded? I certainly don't and they will not be trading him. It's just not reasonable to think that's possible and that's because the Spurs are smart. Best ran team in the NBA.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:22 pm
An offer doesn't hurt
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:42 pm
AndreasRiis wrote:An offer doesn't hurt

It could.

Have you ever had one of your friends in fantasy offer you egregiously one-sided deals in his favor? After a while, you just tune him out cause he's insulting your intelligence. If you constantly bluff in a poker game, you'll get had by a crafty opponent.

If the Dubs destroy their credibility within their line of communication with the Spurs, deals (like the Ezeli trade) might not happen in the future.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:47 pm
Championship team? really? we need to secure a playoff birth first, fellas. We're WAYS away form a championship team.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:00 pm
Yeah exactly. Champion teams aren't built overnight unless you're the Heat. I like our core. If a great deal comes along, sure, look at it. I just don't see paying $15mil for some marginal non all-star is the way to go. We have vets and we also have two good players who are only getting better. They aren't unproven. Klay is avg 16 ppg and one of the best shooters in the league. I don't get this fallacy that he's 1 dimensional spot up shooter either. I'd like to see his pass-to-assist stats if that even exists. His D is avg at worst. He can create and create for others. That's not 1 dimensional. Barnes isn't entirely "proven" but we could already to see that the talent and skill is there and once he finds his mojo, he'll be a very good player.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:03 pm
rockyBeli wrote:I'd like to see his pass-to-assist stats if that even exists. His D is avg at worst. He can create and create for others. That's not 1 dimensional.

His assist ratio (percentage of possessions that result in assists) is 49th among qualified shooting guards.

11.9 isn't exactly "creating for others". Ginobli's assist ratio is 26.1, Wade's is 18.4, Iggy's at 23.4... Even Kobe's is over 17 and he's an acclaimed ball hog. Thompson is in the same ballpark as Jamal Crawford, Jason Richardson, and JR Smith. Would you say they were above-average distributors?
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