GSW Hoops Fan wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:I can't stand Kawakami, he festers in rumors, pushes a negative spin as soon as he can, and he is just a rude sob.

As far as his assessment of Monta, lets be realistic, majority already knew that a Curry/Monta backcourt was not working, its no suprise. Monta is not this, he is not that, but at the end of the day guess what ? Monta got us Bogut.

Everyone can agree Monta needed to be traded, but there was alot of impatient thinking about getting the right trade. There was alot of closed thinking about our roster, which was depleted, compare and contrast this years players with recent past. For me I understood the consequences, regardless of how poor the team played there was a reason for it, and I will never hold a grudge on Monta.

I still disagree that the Curry/Monta back court was not working, or could not work.
There are a lot of people who might disagree, but if you go back, when did they actually get to see if it would work?

For the last 2 seasons Ellis was here, Curry was hurt, so they never really got to see how well the two could play together.
When Ellis was here we didn't have the supporting roster we have now. Yes, Ellis took a lot of shots, but that is exactly what Klay is doing now too. Both guys are scorers, just in different ways. The thing Ellis could do that Klay cannot is handle the ball. Ellis could create for himself or team mates, and while he wasn't the best passer, he was not a poor passer like some suggest.

If you look at the squads he played on compared to ours, you cannot simply say that because he is gone, that is why our team is better. Don't forget that we were winning some good games before the trade.

With that said, I think getting rid of Monta was good for 3 reasons:
1) We got a legit Center (who we still haven't seen on the court)
2) His off the court antics were toxic. I like the vibe in the locker room better now.
3) Curry is now the face of the franchise, and he is elevating not only his game, but those around him.
He wouldn't do this while Ellis was there because he felt like Ellis was the leader.


I don't think Ellis get's enough credit for how good he is, and to say that he couldn't be a Starting SG on a playoff team is unreasonable, since he was never given a chance to play on a quality team. All the reasons I like the trade were for non-basketball reasons, but the kid had game.


oh, and TK still sucks.

Great post!

You break down all the points well.

I neither like nor hate TK's writing. If anything, the guy is a contrarian.

uptempo wrote:

GSW Hoops Fan wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:I can't stand Kawakami, he festers in rumors, pushes a negative spin as soon as he can, and he is just a rude sob.

As far as his assessment of Monta, lets be realistic, majority already knew that a Curry/Monta backcourt was not working, its no suprise. Monta is not this, he is not that, but at the end of the day guess what ? Monta got us Bogut.

Everyone can agree Monta needed to be traded, but there was alot of impatient thinking about getting the right trade. There was alot of closed thinking about our roster, which was depleted, compare and contrast this years players with recent past. For me I understood the consequences, regardless of how poor the team played there was a reason for it, and I will never hold a grudge on Monta.

I still disagree that the Curry/Monta back court was not working, or could not work.
There are a lot of people who might disagree, but if you go back, when did they actually get to see if it would work?

For the last 2 seasons Ellis was here, Curry was hurt, so they never really got to see how well the two could play together.
When Ellis was here we didn't have the supporting roster we have now. Yes, Ellis took a lot of shots, but that is exactly what Klay is doing now too. Both guys are scorers, just in different ways. The thing Ellis could do that Klay cannot is handle the ball. Ellis could create for himself or team mates, and while he wasn't the best passer, he was not a poor passer like some suggest.

If you look at the squads he played on compared to ours, you cannot simply say that because he is gone, that is why our team is better. Don't forget that we were winning some good games before the trade.

With that said, I think getting rid of Monta was good for 3 reasons:
1) We got a legit Center (who we still haven't seen on the court)
2) His off the court antics were toxic. I like the vibe in the locker room better now.
3) Curry is now the face of the franchise, and he is elevating not only his game, but those around him.
He wouldn't do this while Ellis was there because he felt like Ellis was the leader.


I don't think Ellis get's enough credit for how good he is, and to say that he couldn't be a Starting SG on a playoff team is unreasonable, since he was never given a chance to play on a quality team. All the reasons I like the trade were for non-basketball reasons, but the kid had game.


oh, and TK still sucks.

Great post!

You break down all the points well.

I neither like nor hate TK's writing. If anything, the guy is a contrarian.

As far as Curry/Monta backcourt not working there were alot of elements that detered the functionality of that back court. I always thought Monta should have come off the bench as a 6th man, similar to Jack, but our roster did not have the proper balance, the skill, or players to shoulder such a load.

I find points we agree on though, it was just the perfect storm to trade Monta, glad the front office was patient enough and did the trade at the time they did, and not a time sooner. Not just Bogut, but Barnes too, when we traded Monta we went into tank mode.

Oh yea **** Tim K.

Another thing, look at Kobe on the Lakers, if your not surrounded by the right team-mates you going no where. I am comparing the two because they both feel they have to do too much. When kobe scores over 30, the lakers are like 1-10.

The warriors now have balance, they have so many capable players that can do something special every night, because of that we are successfull. Its a good look by the front office for the pick ups, I never would have imagined they would be so successful.

In fairness to the Lakers, they are starting a fourth string point guard and they have no depth. If Pau and Nash come back healthy I do expect a playoff team, but they aren't very intimidating in the regular season and I didn't expect them to be.

GSW Hoops Fan wrote:I still disagree that the Curry/Monta back court was not working, or could not work.
There are a lot of people who might disagree, but if you go back, when did they actually get to see if it would work?
For the last 2 seasons Ellis was here, Curry was hurt, so they never really got to see how well the two could play together.

I don't know the numbers, but they played in a lot of games together. There's just zero common sense in 2 undersized, low defense players playing side by side, and expecting to not get torched by big SG's like Joe Johnson, Kobe, Iggy, etc.

When Ellis was here we didn't have the supporting roster we have now. Yes, Ellis took a lot of shots, but that is exactly what Klay is doing now too. Both guys are scorers, just in different ways. The thing Ellis could do that Klay cannot is handle the ball. Ellis could create for himself or team mates, and while he wasn't the best passer, he was not a poor passer like some suggest.

If you look at the squads he played on compared to ours, you cannot simply say that because he is gone, that is why our team is better. Don't forget that we were winning some good games before the trade.

We had the main pieces of Curry and Lee, who many are saying have a good shot at being all stars this year. Yet no sniff of the playoffs. The depth we have now definitely does help though.

Klay can definitely handle the ball. Probably in a more meaningful way than Ellis too. Ellis would dribble without any real plan for his teammates. He was trying to 'get his'. With Klay, we can see he is looking for his shot but he also sees plays and sees way to set up his teammates for good shots. Monta's basketball IQ is low, therefore he will not see plays others do, etc. I don't think someone can be a very good passer when their BBIQ is low / too impatient to let plays develop. I will 100% say Klay Thompson is a better play maker than Monta Ellis. He makes good, progressive basketball fundamental plays, instead of the 'bailout' passing that Monta would get his assists from. And we weren't winning shi* for 7 yrs with Monta

With that said, I think getting rid of Monta was good for 3 reasons:
1) We got a legit Center (who we still haven't seen on the court)
2) His off the court antics were toxic. I like the vibe in the locker room better now.
3) Curry is now the face of the franchise, and he is elevating not only his game, but those around him.
He wouldn't do this while Ellis was there because he felt like Ellis was the leader.


I don't think Ellis get's enough credit for how good he is, and to say that he couldn't be a Starting SG on a playoff team is unreasonable, since he was never given a chance to play on a quality team. All the reasons I like the trade were for non-basketball reasons, but the kid had game.


oh, and TK still sucks.

Monta is overrated if anything. He's just not an efficient basketball player who plays winning basketball. His volume shooting shoots teams out of games. He literally is a liability at so many things when his shot isn't falling. Look around the Bucks forums, the fans can't wait to trade him. Some are even saying getting Alec Burks from the Jazz for him would be a steal lol.

It was truly an addition by subtraction trade. We have a team who plays team ball now, has chemistry. Monta destroyed chemistry. We have a SG who not only can score 20 ppg any given day, but he creates for his teammates, plays smart winning ball, isn't an undersized midget, a competitor, rebounds, and is turning out to be a pretty decent defender. All things Monta isn't. The fascination with Monta is the same it was with Iverson. Fans root for the short guy.

Dude's been shooting around sub-40% (while taking 17 FGA's) for the Bucks most of the season. This while being a permanent defensive liability and contributor of poor fundamental basketball plays. I thank the basketball gods every night we traded Monta Ellis

Ok, I just wrote a long ass reply to this that got lost because the session timed out. Damn waste of time.
SO here is the shortned version:
Your assessment of Monta seems to based on feeling more than fact. We both agree that trading him was good, but I can’t really understand why his game was so under appreciated by a lot of fans. Was it his attitude or lack of speaking ability that got to people. Was it because the mo-ped? Or maybe his signing was seen as the end of the we believe era… totally not his fault that management couldn’t keep that team together. I must point out that there are a lot of fallacies in your argument though.

rockyBeli wrote:I don't know the numbers, but they played in a lot of games together. There's just zero common sense in 2 undersized, low defense players playing side by side, and expecting to not get torched by big SG's like Joe Johnson, Kobe, Iggy, etc.

Actually having 2 undersized guards did not hurt this team defensively. The opposition almost never posted us up, and when they did, it didn’t really work that well. The size really isn’t a factor on the perimeter, speed is. Defensively our team wasn’t good, but it was not because of the size of our guards. It was due to lack of size or shot blocking in the 3, 4 and 5 positions. It was also because of the mental mistakes and sometimes lack of effort/rebounding.

rockyBeli wrote:We had the main pieces of Curry and Lee, who many are saying have a good shot at being all stars this year. Yet no sniff of the playoffs. The depth we have now definitely does help though.

That statement is not accurate. Lets break it down by season:
Season 09-10.
We draft Curry. He starts the season off the bench for Don Nelson. No David Lee. Ellis misses the last part of the season due to injury. Also, this season would forever known as the D-League brigade where Don Nelson got to be the winingest coach ever coaching a bunch of D-League call ups.

Season 10-11
We get D –Lee. Before the season starts Curry hurts ankle in Olympic team. Never really 100% as we all find out he has a glass ankle. Still, we start off the season good until the infamous Carnivorous Wilson Chandler snacks on D. Lees elbow. Yum Yum Yum. To say that this is a good assessment year for Curry Ellis combo with lots of injuries, more d-league call ups, K. Smart coaching is not fair. Will not buy that.

Season 11-12
Curry still hurt. Lock out season. No traning camp and a new coach. Ellis is traded ½ through…

So, when did they get the chance to play a squad where all the pieces were there?

rockyBeli wrote:Klay can definitely handle the ball. Probably in a more meaningful way than Ellis too. Ellis would dribble without any real plan for his teammates. He was trying to 'get his'. With Klay, we can see he is looking for his shot but he also sees plays and sees way to set up his teammates for good shots. Monta's basketball IQ is low, therefore he will not see plays others do, etc. I don't think someone can be a very good passer when their BBIQ is low / too impatient to let plays develop. I will 100% say Klay Thompson is a better play maker than Monta Ellis. He makes good, progressive basketball fundamental plays, instead of the 'bailout' passing that Monta would get his assists from. And we weren't winning shi* for 7 yrs with Monta

No way can Klay handle the ball better then Ellis. Klay could not get to the rim like Ellis can. Klay struggles at times to the ball on the floor, but he is getting better at it. Monta could dominate 1 on 1, Klay cannot. Handles = dribbling ability… Monta had Klay beat there by far. Also Ellis could create for himself and for team mates more often and more efficiently then Klay. Look at the numbers. Klay is avg 2.6 AGP and 2 TO PG. Monta 5.6 and 2.9. As far as IQ, come on… Klay’s IQ is not that great.. hence the mess ups against Denver that costs us the game. He has had other lapses all season long. Those will get better with time but I think you are mixing Monta’s actual IQ (probably not that High) with Basketball IQ (pretty decent BBall IQ). I am not saying that he had a huge BBall IQ, but better then Klay, that is for sure. The only think that Klay could do that Ellis couldn’t was spread the floor with 3 point shooting. Which has been sporadic this season. Defensively Ellis could do a better job of shutting some one out, but he was not very consistent.


As for the wins…. Come on, Ellis was here 6.5 years.
Year 1, rookie year. Didn’t get to play that much under Nelson. Was coming out of HS.
Year 2. Came off the bench for We Believe season. Winning Season.
Year 3. Team won 48 games and still didn’t make the playoffs. Most a team has won and not made the playoffs.
Year 4. Mo- Ped accident. Baron Leaves. Team sucks. He only plays 25 games
Year 5. Curry drafted. D-League extravaganza.
Year6. Lee signed, another sub-par year. Curry hurt
Year 7. We float just below 500 until he gets traded.

So if you don’t count his rookie year where he didn’t get to play, he had 5.5 seasons, were 2 of them were winning seasons.

Can’t really say he didn’t win ****.

Again, I think getting rid of Monta was good for 3 reasons:
1) We got a legit Center (who we still haven't seen on the court)
2) His off the court antics were toxic. I like the vibe in the locker room better now.
3) Curry is now the face of the franchise, and he is elevating not only his game, but those around him.
He wouldn't do this while Ellis was there because he felt like Ellis was the leader.

I honestly believe that if we could trade Klay for Ellis (just their games, not their attitude), that we would be a better team right now. And I love Klay on our team. I like what he brings, but Ellis was a better player, no doubt in my mind. All the reasons that Ellis was not good for us were non-basketball related.

Curry had a much higher offensive output in terms of efficency when Ellis was not on the court. I am not sure why you are trying to say it could have worked, because it couldn't. Ellis didn't play defense and he was a blackhole on offense.

He made everyone worse.

Our D-league year, when we were machined gun by injuries. Our best unit did not include Ellis. Speaks volume.

GSW Hoops Fan wrote:Ok, I just wrote a long ass reply to this that got lost because the session timed out. Damn waste of time.
SO here is the shortned version:
Your assessment of Monta seems to based on feeling more than fact. We both agree that trading him was good, but I can’t really understand why his game was so under appreciated by a lot of fans. Was it his attitude or lack of speaking ability that got to people. Was it because the mo-ped? Or maybe his signing was seen as the end of the we believe era… totally not his fault that management couldn’t keep that team together. I must point out that there are a lot of fallacies in your argument though.

lol that's the worst.. I always copy n paste.

All of the above, but of course it was his play on the court that irked me. It was FO's fault for putting their faith in fools gold Monta and Biedrins.

Actually having 2 undersized guards did not hurt this team defensively. The opposition almost never posted us up, and when they did, it didn’t really work that well. The size really isn’t a factor on the perimeter, speed is. Defensively our team wasn’t good, but it was not because of the size of our guards. It was due to lack of size or shot blocking in the 3, 4 and 5 positions. It was also because of the mental mistakes and sometimes lack of effort/rebounding.

We had the worst backcourt in the league defensively, how does that not hurt the team? Ellis is a horrid defender because he's undersized AND his defensive instincts stink (reaching instead of using his feet, going for pumpfakes, looking lost, etc).

That statement is not accurate. Lets break it down by season:
Season 09-10.
We draft Curry. He starts the season off the bench for Don Nelson. No David Lee. Ellis misses the last part of the season due to injury. Also, this season would forever known as the D-League brigade where Don Nelson got to be the winingest coach ever coaching a bunch of D-League call ups.

Season 10-11
We get D –Lee. Before the season starts Curry hurts ankle in Olympic team. Never really 100% as we all find out he has a glass ankle. Still, we start off the season good until the infamous Carnivorous Wilson Chandler snacks on D. Lees elbow. Yum Yum Yum. To say that this is a good assessment year for Curry Ellis combo with lots of injuries, more d-league call ups, K. Smart coaching is not fair. Will not buy that.

Season 11-12
Curry still hurt. Lock out season. No traning camp and a new coach. Ellis is traded ½ through…

So, when did they get the chance to play a squad where all the pieces were there?

All I know is, 7 years is enough time for a player to take his team to the playoffs if he's truly a good / star player. The biggest example of Monta's ineffectiveness, is when he came back from the moped injury, and literally had no impact in the win column.

No way can Klay handle the ball better then Ellis. Klay could not get to the rim like Ellis can. Klay struggles at times to the ball on the floor, but he is getting better at it. Monta could dominate 1 on 1, Klay cannot. Handles = dribbling ability… Monta had Klay beat there by far. Also Ellis could create for himself and for team mates more often and more efficiently then Klay. Look at the numbers. Klay is avg 2.6 AGP and 2 TO PG. Monta 5.6 and 2.9. As far as IQ, come on… Klay’s IQ is not that great.. hence the mess ups against Denver that costs us the game. He has had other lapses all season long. Those will get better with time but I think you are mixing Monta’s actual IQ (probably not that High) with Basketball IQ (pretty decent BBall IQ). I am not saying that he had a huge BBall IQ, but better then Klay, that is for sure. The only think that Klay could do that Ellis couldn’t was spread the floor with 3 point shooting. Which has been sporadic this season. Defensively Ellis could do a better job of shutting some one out, but he was not very consistent.

Didn't say better, I said more meaningful ball handling. Basically more efficient in making good basketball plays. Monta would do a lot of dribbling ala Iverson, and not really go anywhere or freeze out his teammates.

Dude Ellis' BBIQ is horrid. He was still making rookie mistakes in year 7, especially on defense. You gotta watch Klay play more, because that guys BBIQ is easily better than Monta's on both sides of the ball.

Klay is a better defender / playmaker (makes plays for his teammates) / teammate / outside shooter / rebounder / bbiq / intangibles / leader than Monta. One makes winning plays, the other is a volume shooter.

I honestly believe that if we could trade Klay for Ellis (just their games, not their attitude), that we would be a better team right now. And I love Klay on our team. I like what he brings, but Ellis was a better player, no doubt in my mind. All the reasons that Ellis was not good for us were non-basketball related.

No chance in hell we are a better TEAM with Monta. You could make the case that Ellis is a more talented scorer - but that is it. One of the main reasons why this team is successful is because of Monta's absence and not ballhogging. This plays team ball, Monta is anti-team ball.


At the end of the day -- Monta is of the Corey Maggette, Ben Gordon, Jamal Crawford volume shooting mold. Talented scorers - yes, but their overall game is so weak / a liability that they become detrimental to WINNING basketball.

All I know is, 7 years is enough time for a player to take his team to the playoffs if he's truly a good / star player. The biggest example of Monta's ineffectiveness, is when he came back from the moped injury, and literally had no impact in the win column.

If you are counting 7 years then what was the we believe era? This statement doesn't make any sense....
And you are looking at someone coming back from injury and not being able to carry a non-playoff team to the playoffs as the biggest example?

We had the worst backcourt in the league defensively, how does that not hurt the team? Ellis is a horrid defender because he's undersized AND his defensive instincts stink (reaching instead of using his feet, going for pumpfakes, looking lost, etc).

Size had nothing to do with it... it was not moving his feet and gambling on defense. But when he did try and play defense, he was capable of shutting people down.... Also, we are currently playing better team defense, and we have better interior presence right now. Not really something we had in past seasons.

Dude Ellis' BBIQ is horrid. He was still making rookie mistakes in year 7, especially on defense. You gotta watch Klay play more, because that guys BBIQ is easily better than Monta's on both sides of the ball.

Dude, i'll give that Monta's BBIQ is not that great, but it was still better then Klay's. Klay has made some pretty bone headed decisions, in 24 games this season you can compile a list. Klay is talented, but he needs to work on basketball IQ.

Klay is a better defender / playmaker (makes plays for his teammates) / teammate / outside shooter / rebounder / bbiq / intangibles / leader than Monta. One makes winning plays, the other is a volume shooter.

I disagree with all of this. Look, there is a reason that we were hovering around .500, we subtract Ellis and basically loose the rest of our games. That right there should show you that Ellis was keeping the team afloat. Now it is by commitee because we have a better team. We have a better bench, and it helps that Curry is finally healthy. As far as playmaking, why would Ellis have a higher Assist, and a higher Assist to turn over ratio then Klay does?

Last thing I want to do is make it seem like I want Ellis on the team. My argument is that as a basketball talent, he wasn't given credit for how good he was and all that he brought to the team. I like Klay, and I like what his skill set brings to the team, but he was not better then Ellis.

I don't know if the Curry/Ellis backcourt would of worked out in the long run. On paper, it may look like the Warriors had a dynamic backcourt with those two, but in the win/loss column, it didn't yield great results. I've never been a big fan of Ellis either. There were other additions that can attribute to their great start this season, but just the subtraction of Ellis helps as well. It gives better opportunities to guys like Lee, Thompson, Landry, Barnes and Curry. They don't have a guy chucking up 20+ shots a game anymore and Curry leads the team in attempts with 16 which is 15th in the league thus far. Its no coincidence that this is a much better defensive team as well without Ellis. This has actually become a much better "team". You see the ball zipping around instead of a stagnant offense watching a guy dribble the ball for 15 seconds and putting up a shot.

BayAreaHoopz wrote:I don't know if the Curry/Ellis backcourt would of worked out in the long run. On paper, it may look like the Warriors had a dynamic backcourt with those two, but in the win/loss column, it didn't yield great results. I've never been a big fan of Ellis either. There were other additions that can attribute to their great start this season, but just the subtraction of Ellis helps as well. It gives better opportunities to guys like Lee, Thompson, Landry, Barnes and Curry. They don't have a guy chucking up 20+ shots a game anymore and Curry leads the team in attempts with 16 which is 15th in the league thus far. Its no coincidence that this is a much better defensive team as well without Ellis. This has actually become a much better "team". You see the ball zipping around instead of a stagnant offense watching a guy dribble the ball for 15 seconds and putting up a shot.

I just don't see it that way. A lot of the arguments against him are based off of "feel" and speculation, and vibe. There isn't any real substance. Granted you can tell a lot from looking at a game and see what is going on, but you have to keep it in perspective. THe year Ellis left he took 19 attemps per game, and the year before that it was 20. Compared to Curry's 16 this season, and Klays 14 this season.... but Ellis did shoot it at a higher percentage then Klay. His field goal percentat was 45% in 10-11 and 43% for 11-12. Curry was a stud at 48% and 49% the those years, but has fallen down to 42.3% this year. Compared to Klay's 44.3% last year and 40.2% this year. Rember, Ellis was a great mid range shooter. Also, if you factor in that Ellis was playing 40+ min per game, and then take a look at Attempts per minute, then the disparity isn't that great.

Yes, the passing has been better this year, but was it also a result of the lack of supporting cast perhaps? Let's not forget that in 07-08 the first year Ellis was a starter, we won 48 games and he only attempted 15 shots a game at a blistering 53%. There was a lot of passing in those we believe eras, and Ellis WAS on that team. To me, I take that as an example of what he could do on a quality team.

I do give you that his defense was poor, but I won't concede that it was due to lack of size. Nor that he could not play good defense. I accredit it to lack of effort.

Again, my argument isn't that we should not have traded him, but that we can't say that the Curry/Ellis combo would never have worked, or didn't work because it never got a fair shot. Also, people under appreciate his game. I didn't like his attitude so much, but his game was incredible.

I'm with you on this one GSW Hoops Fan. I would like to add something, but you covered it all. I like Ellis though. I was for trading him, if it would help the team, by getting us a big body, and it did. Also, I felt it was getting hard on him, he was really trying to make it happen, and people were starting to blame him when the team coldn't pull it off, and the guy loved the team, the fans, the Bay. Can't take that from him, guy had heart.

That percentage you wrote GSW is spot on. The guy is being hated by some fans too much for some reason (I see him as Alex Smith of the Warriors), and yet, Klay is being praised as if he's million times better than Monta. Which is so far from the truth.

Its mute argument, regardless how much any one might dislike a player, their value is based on the market and not opinions. You can argue the point over and over but FACT is without MONTA there would be no BOGUT or BARNES, period. That argument is fact, you can't argue fact.

If some might not understand how value works, put Beans on the market and watch what we get back. Put Monta on the other hand and he delivered. End of story, not really worth an argument.

The biggest thing I see is that without Monta the team is having a winning season and Klay fits so well as SG.

Guybrush wrote:I'm with you on this one GSW Hoops Fan. I would like to add something, but you covered it all. I like Ellis though. I was for trading him, if it would help the team, by getting us a big body, and it did. Also, I felt it was getting hard on him, he was really trying to make it happen, and people were starting to blame him when the team coldn't pull it off, and the guy loved the team, the fans, the Bay. Can't take that from him, guy had heart.

That percentage you wrote GSW is spot on. The guy is being hated by some fans too much for some reason (I see him as Alex Smith of the Warriors), and yet, Klay is being praised as if he's million times better than Monta. Which is so far from the truth.

Thanks Guy. What I tried to communicate in 3 long posts you summed up in a couple paragraphs. He had heart and gave it his all. Was he perfect, no. His demeanor was also poor in the end, but he never stopped trying to win. I just think the problem wasn't him, but the situation the team was in. Injuries, lack of supporting cast, lack of coaching defensive concepts, etc. Just wish people would stop blaming him for the lack of success we had in the past. I think it could have worked, but we will never know.